Who created the E9th tuning, when, and why?

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 12 Jul 2002 12:32 pm

Shame on me for not reading the whole "thang"
but I wanted to add.....I bought a lap steel w/6 strings from maybe Montgomery Ward or Spiegle ? and then started drooling over the flyers that I saw in the music store that sold "National" D8s. There were tunings listed that you could drool even more over as you read it over! I am sure I recall not believing their ad showing the E7th tuning
with the 2 treble strings on the bottom! Oh, no that must be a misprint because steel tunings go from the lowest pitch to the highest pitch!!! Just like I objected to the F note Bobbe put on my Fender 400 to show me how to get the 4 note jazz chords I was hearing on a reel to reel tape he'd sent his Dad (& brother Bob fwd it to me!) That is I objected on the grounds that there was no F note in a C6th chord. Bobbe said, "wait a minute, go to the G fret & pick strings 9, 7,
6 & 4! He put another pick on my 3rd finger,
(just like them good old boys in Texas!) so I could pick all 4 strings! I said, "Wow that's it!!" & I was off & runnin'! On the G fret those notes are a Cmaj 7th, not quite so "square" as a 3 note chord! (John Mehegan)[This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 13 July 2002 at 03:27 AM.]

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 11 Oct 2004 9:22 pm

Wow. This thread is good. I sure do miss Carl.

The only thing this thread is missing is some dates. Does anyone know the year that the high G# string was added?

-Tim

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 11 Oct 2004 11:02 pm

Its comforting to know that E9 didn't happen all at once. Teams of scientists working around the clock in dark smoky laboratories.
I want to hear about who started with knee levers. And when did half stops start showing up?

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 12 Oct 2004 3:33 am

......(quote) "Many players have great difficulty moving to the C6 after becoming proficiant on E9".......

Also....many players had great difficulty moving to E9 after playing C6 for years!

Not only was it a big change functionally, but it was an even bigger change in the "mindset" required to adapt to the vastly different musical interpretation required to play the E9 style.

www.genejones.com

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 12 Oct 2004 3:46 am

I think that this is one for the books; Carl and Buddy, I don't think it gets any better. May God bless you real good, and I agree with Al, Carl; if you put this in a book I want a copy.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 12 Oct 2004 5:23 am

Look how old this thread is. Isn't Harry Hess deceased? Wow.

Drew

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Fessenden D-10 8+8 / Magnatone S-8 (E13)

Grant Johnson · Post by **Grant Johnson** » 12 Oct 2004 7:05 am

What a great thread!
Bump it up to the top for us young-uns who need history lessons.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 12 Oct 2004 7:39 am

Well,while we are on the subject of E9th history,it is my understanding that when BUDDY EMMONS split the "A" pedal into "A" and "B". He understandably got excited about all the new possibilities and called up his good friend, JIMMY DAY,and told him about it. In the conversation,BUDDY failed to tell JIMMY which pedal he put in the #1 position,so when JIMMY set up his guitar to try it,he put the two main pedals backwards to BUDDY"s. This resulted in two different "standard" setups for E9th; the "DAY" setup and the "EMMONS" setup. BUDDY,if my information is incorrect on this,please correct it so we will all have a complete and accurate history of the E9th tuning! ~~W.C.~~

Al Udeen · Post by **Al Udeen** » 12 Oct 2004 8:59 am

In 1957 I had a Fender Stringmaster, that I put a pedal on to raise the B & G# strings but had severe string breakage problems! I took a few lessons in Minneapolis from a guitar player that told me, "If you had a G# string above your 1st string E, you wouldn't have to slant your bar to get various chords" later that year, I went to Shot Jacksons Garage in Madison, Tn. to order a new Sho-Bud,[several years later at St.Louis, Shot indicated that mine was the 3rd dbl neck Sho-Bud after Jimmy Days & Buddys] while talking to Shot & Buddy, I requested they put a high G# on top of the E9 tuning, This was done & I later sent the guitar back to Shot & he converted it to a Dbl 9 to accomadate the G# string,I moved to Tucson in 59 & played a local TV show on KGUN channel 9, this is where I first met Buck Owens & Wynn Srewart, & played behind them on several shows, both on the TV show & at the Tucson Gardens, As far as who had the first G# string I honestly believe it was between Mooney & myself, It would be interesting to find out what year Ralph started using this string! I hope I havent started any controversy but just wanted to provide some information regarding this matter! I still have Ole #3 & its in nice condition, I should post some pics for all to see! Regards! Al Udeen[This message was edited by Al Udeen on 12 October 2004 at 10:11 AM.]

Buddy Emmons · Post by **Buddy Emmons** » 12 Oct 2004 12:20 pm

Wayne, that story sounds good to me.

In answer to Carl’s question regarding pedal C, after hearing Ralph Mooney use the E to F# sound on a recording, I added it to the third pedal of my Sho~Bud. The difference in the old pedal C and today’s was I had pedal C close to pedal B. With that spacing I could push pedals A, B, and C down with one foot and get the Mooney sound, or a 7th with pedals B and C, or an add 9 with C alone. I don’t remember who changed the third pedal back to equal spacing, but when they did, they had to put both the B to C# and E to F# raise on pedal C.

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 12 Oct 2004 4:06 pm

Boy, I skate on thin ice here, but I always thought the "Bud" was my immediate predecessor on this thread.

James
Sho-Bud LDG

Clyde Lane · Post by **Clyde Lane** » 12 Oct 2004 4:14 pm

James, it was.

Clyde Lane

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 12 Oct 2004 6:17 pm

Drew, I think Harry is gone. I almost forgot and e-mailed him to ask where he had been keeping himself and I was glad to see him back.

Pete Knapton · Post by **Pete Knapton** » 2 Jan 2005 5:51 am

Ok, I'm quite new to pedal steel so i hope this doesn't sound dumb.

With the E9 tuning, why are the top four strings out of order? I guess its for the right hand method... is this for ease of a rolling picking style?

If someone used a comping style rather than a picking style, wouldn't D# E F# G# work better?

Does anyone use the acending note setup?

I'm sure there's some good reasons why the standard E9 tuning is this way.
I've been trying to work it out and can't find anything in the archives.

Thanks, Pete [This message was edited by Pete Knapton on 02 January 2005 at 06:18 AM.]

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 2 Jan 2005 6:05 am

Gary: ; Just thank God that we have E9th, cause most of us could never get a job doing C6th!!

Just my 2 cents worth!

Ernie Pollock

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Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 2 Jan 2005 9:48 am

[This message was edited by Craig A Davidson on 02 January 2005 at 09:50 AM.]

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 2 Jan 2005 11:17 am

Man I never new Carl could talk that much. But Knowledge he has me beat. I have 50 years of Steel to catch up on if I want to play like these guys.HUMMMM
Sam White

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 2 Jan 2005 8:01 pm

Ernie-I guess we should be glad that E9 came along.
I had to go from C6(E6 for me) to learn E9 to get work in the later years of my life...al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

db · Post by db » 20 Mar 2005 5:40 pm

The next post says it better . . .

Thanks,
[This message was edited by db on 21 March 2005 at 08:10 PM.]

db · Post by db » 21 Mar 2005 8:08 pm

Anyone here know the early "D" tunings that Jim Day used?
I am interested in knowing the progression of additions to his set-up that brought him to his final set-up.
Like, what was his first chromatic note . . . ?
Where was it located . . . ?
Second Chromatic note . . . ?
When did he add the 9th . . . ?
I am still amazed that he never added the "D" lever ( root-lower function ).
What was his technique that got him around this missing function?

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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 22 Mar 2005 5:03 am

I'm sure there are others who know this better, but I don't think Jimmy tuned down to D all the time ( in the early days ). He did on Steel & Strings album, but many Ray Price cuts show, that he was tuned to E9 ( hammer-ons, open strings ). I also have some video footage from the same era as Steel & Strings, Jimmy is probably playing the same guitar than on the album and he is tuned to E.
I hope somebody will answer your other questions, since I want to know too

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 22 Mar 2005 5:39 am

If I remember correctly, and only Buddy can answer this, didn't Ernest Tubb record "Crazy Arms" in the key of "C"? And if I remember correctly and old age hasn't thwarted my memory, wasn't one "lick", A & B pedals down on the third fret and doing a pull off the first string? By having the 1st string where it is now you don't have to do the pull off. I hope this is making sense. I just thank God that Buddy came along.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 22 Mar 2005 5:56 am

Jussi
To further confuse the issue slightly, Jimmy also used a capo from time to time, like on the "I Can't Walk Away From Myself" cut by Price.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 22 Mar 2005 3:29 pm

Let me just finish that lick. Without today's two top strings you would have A and B pedals down, the bar flat across the 3rd fret, pull off on the first string hit the second string, hit the third string and rock off the A pedal, keeping the B pedal down, then hit the fourth string. Anyone remember doing that on a D8?

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 22 Mar 2005 10:20 pm

Herb, is that the slow version of "I Can't RUN Away From Myself"??

Sorry, I couldn't resist, I'm a smart a$$ !! Seriously though, I always wondered about the capo thing too ever since I learned about him tuning to D.