ZumSteel Encore vs Justice S10

[Tyler Terrell]

I apologize if this has been discussed over and over but I couldn't find a post that put these two head to head. I'm in the ~$1500 range and these two look to be the top contenders judging by what I've read on the forum.

I understand that they are both nice guitars - what I really need is a pro/con of each so I'm better able to make the decision. Please refrain from suggesting other guitars. My head is already spinning a bit

If there is already a thread on this, let me know.

Thanks!

http://www.stageonesteelguitars.com/zumsteel_encore
http://www.justicesteelguitars.com/S10.html

[Lane Gray]

Flip a coin.

[Jason Putnam]

I own a stage one. It's been great and I'm sure the Encore is even better. Doug Earnest is a pleasure to deal with. I've never had dealings with the Justice guitars or Fred but from what I read on the forum, the same applies to him and his guitars. So if I were the one making the decision, I would go with the one that has the least wait time.

[Rick Barnhart]

Flip a coin.

Tyler, I've dealt with both dealers...and proudly call Fred my friend. Lane is right, you can't go wrong with either. Both are fine men and build excellent guitars. Neither will rest until you are happy.

[Greg Johnson]

I just bought a Zum Encore. I am moving from a 74 MSA Classic. The difference is staggering. The encore has great sound and tone and Bruce is a real gentleman. For me it is a big adjustment playing a smaller guitar but I love the weight super light. I find the levers not quite as well fitting for me.

The one thing I find inconvenient if that is the term is that it is set for a certain string gauge. And you really need to stick to it. So you may have to restock your spare strings and yes .001 makes a difference. For instance, the recommended is .017 you can't put on a .018. There is no pedal travel adjustment other than on the bell cranks.

I will gig it this weekend and give a better report. But for the money it is a great little guitar. Will it last as long as my MSA, probably, maybe, who knows.

[Doc Hall]

Lane's right. You can't go wrong with either guitar. I do own one of Fred's S-10's and it's a fine playing guitar. It's got some room for adjustment and future growth. Fred's great to deal with. I've been totally satisfied.

[Bill L. Wilson]

I have played Fred's guitars on display in Phoenix, and I would buy one in a Heart Beat, if I needed a new steel. The tone, action, build quality, and playability, is second to none. And I'll add, Fred is a Good Guy.

[Bill Moore]

I had a Stage One, which was very good, with a few limitations. I think the Encore has eliminated those limitations. I also own A Justice S-10, one of the first versions. The current version has the improved cosmetics. I like it a lot. It's a great playing, and great sounding guitar. I don't think you can go wrong with either one of them.

[James Taylor]

Tyler, I know just how you feel and as Lane said you will not go wrong with either. Living in a remote area of Scotland, I had to spend a great deal of time studying all the excellant guitars on sale on the internet and the tremendous help from many on this FORUM. In the end it was,for me either the Justice or the Encore and after a great deal of thought I chose the Encore and I still love it.Remember both are top instruments and if you can try them you will make the right choice for you;I did not have that oppertunity. JAMES TAYLOR

[Russ Wever]

The one thing I find inconvenient if that is the term is that it is set for a certain string gauge.
And you really need to stick to it. So you may have to restock your spare strings and yes
.001 makes a difference. For instance, the recommended is .017 you can't put on a .018.

If you're referring to the Encore, that is not correct.

The MSA has it's pedal adjustment at the 'bottom' of the pedal stroke
and the pedal return springs bring the pedal back up to its 'idle position'.

The Encore uses a 'fixed' stop to define the 'bottom' of the pedal stroke.

The Encores pedal will, in its 'idle position' raise up as far as it needs to,
to allow the string to return to its 'open note', no adjustment needed.

By using this method, there is no chance of a 'pedal-stop screw' going
out of adjustment, nor is there any 'pedal-stop setscrew' that,
after prolonged use, will 'chewing into' the pedal crank and cause
'sticky-pedal syndrome', whereby the pedals tend to 'momentarily
stick' in their pushed position before snapping back up.

You can use a variety of string gauges (within reason, of course) on the
Encore.
A slightly larger gauge of course requires slightly more changer movement,
as it would with any guitar.
For this, you would adjust the nylon tuner (with the pedal down) accordingly
and when the pedal is released, it will assume a (slightly higher) position due
to the (slightly) increased need of the changer.
This applies also to the MSA, provided the increased travel is
not more than the pedals 'travel limits' allow (and in which
case you would have to adjust the pedals 'lower limit'.
~Russ

[Damir Besic]

Encore is 100 bucks cheaper, has 5 knee levers, pick up options, adjustable legs, and triple raise/triple lower changer... don't make a mistake and think that Encore is a beginner instrument, because it is not...I never owned a Justice guitar, but I'm sure they are nice, but I owned a new Encore, and I would get another one in a heart beat... there is no better deal out there, than Encore...




db

[Fred Glave]

I love my Encore and my Stage One. They are both keepers because they're a pleasure to play and stay in tune forever. The Encore is a fully adjustable single neck steel with killer tone with the True Tone single coil or you can go with a Humbucker.
3 pedals and 5 knees and 23lbs. But to be fair, I have never played a Justice. They have an excellent reputation too. It would be nice to compare them hands on.

[Jerry Roller]

I have not played the Justice but I do know Fred and he is a good guy and good player. When I needed a new guitar for my Grandson I bought him a new Zum Encore and it was a great choice. Encore offers a humbucker pickup that is second to none. Braydon loves his Encore and it plays like a dream. I have replaced strings on it and I use heavier gauge strings and there are no issues with string gauge. I liked his so much I ordered one for myself but after playing it out twice I realized I could not be comfortable without a C6th so I sold it.
Jerry

[Roger Shackelton]

Will The Encore PSG Handle The C-6 Tuning


Roger

[Tyler Terrell]

Thanks for all the input everyone. Looks like I'm going to start with a used Stage One - I just couldn't wait until fall for a new instrument!

I still think I'll end up ordering a new Justice or Encore once I wrap my head around the basics and I'm ready to graduate to something a with a little more flexibility.

Thanks again everyone. Really appreciating all of the information available on this forum.

[Daniel Policarpo]

I have a Stage One. I play it about 15-17 hours a week and it stays in tune really well, plays great, and the better I get, the better it sounds. After about a year and a half, it's starting to sound pretty good! I think you'll be really happy starting off with a Stage One. Three pedals, four knees will keep you pretty busy for quite some time. Enjoy!

[Lyle Clary]

I have had an Encore since February 1st and have been playing gigs at least once a week since. I think it sounds and plays better than it's big sister a 2006 D10 Zum. I bought it specifically for it's lightness. I really like the sound of the humbucker pickup that Doug offers. Very satisfied customer. I also bought the pot pedal that Doug offers which also is weight saving in my pack seat and even though it is light it does not move around.

[John Roche]

I have a stage one, I can tell you there's no better sounding steel for recording. I have owned the full range of top makes in my 50 years of playing and nothing comes close to the presence you get with the Zum, I assume all the Zums will be the same. As for limitations on the stage one there is plenty of scope to play anything you want.

[Lane Gray]

As for limitations on pull-release, they can be overcome. Richard Burton even came up with a solution for tunable splits.

[Kevin Mills]

Flip a coin.

Is there any difference between these two instruments in terms of how they can be set up? I've never played the pedal steel but I want to learn and these two instruments seem to be in line with what I am wanting to purchase to get started. I'm just not 100% on all the terminology so I'm not sure if there is a difference between these two instruments that I should be aware of.

Thank you,
Kevin

[Bill Moore]

I have owned both of them. Both the Encore and the Justice have pro level mechanics. They could be set up any way you like. But if you are just starting, changing the standard set up is probably the last thing you should worry about. Both are fine steel guitars, either one would be suitable.

[Mike Wenger]

I have one of Bruce Earnest's Encores, and couldn't be happier. Although I am a VERY new player, the one advantage that the Encore might have is the 5th left knee (up) lever which, off of an open position Emaj, gives you a nice F#7th/9th. In looking at the Justice S-10 on their website, I don't see that feature.

All that said, I have never seen anything but good said about the Justice instruments. They are really gorgeous.

MW

[Mike Perlowin]

If I may make an analogy, this is like saying "I'm learning to drive. Should I get a Honda or Toyota?"

Just as both cars will take you where you want to go, so too will both steels. You will be more than satisfied with either one. The best advise that has been offered on this thread is to get the one with the shortest wait time.

[Jim Reynolds]

Mike, I'm with you. I've owned many guitars, at present I have a Zum StageOne, Mullen Discovery, Carter U-12. Of them all, right now, I play the U-12 the most. This is the second StageOne, the first I traded to Damir for the Mullen Discovery, then could live without the StageOne, bought this one on e-bay from a guy who only had it six months, and wasn't going to learn. I grabbed it. I played the most of my S-10's until I got the U-12. I had a Encore on order, but cancelled it when my second back surgery didn't work out very good. Doug is one of the finest men I know. Fred I don't know, but he probably falls in the same class. I do love my StageOne. I am looking at a Zum U-12, if I get it, I'll sell my Carter, and put it in my music room to replace the Carter. Only because it's a Zum.