Any Interest in Learning Zane Beck's Tuning

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 30 Mar 2005 4:36 pm

After much thought I have decided to switch to Zane Beck's Tuning. I am working on courseware for this tuning.

Are there any of you that would be interested in at least learning this tuning if I developed teaching material for this tuning?

I have talked to Mike Miller, Zane King, Gary McVay, Graham and a few others. They have agreed to proof the material and assist in this project.

If there is enough interest I will develop a sampler with tab and sound track for one country and one jazz tune using nothing but the open tuning.

(That way if you have a 12 string all you have to change is the open tuning and not change any knees or pedals)

If you are interested, would you please email me and let me know. I will post the tabs and tracks on my site upon completion of these items.

Thanks

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 31 Mar 2005 6:14 pm

Bump for Zane!

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 1 Apr 2005 6:24 am

Dan, can you post Zane's copedant? I remember seeing it in Winnie Winston's book but I'd like to see it before commenting. Thanks, JH in Va.

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 1 Apr 2005 6:32 am

Jerry I will get that done this evening. I'll send it to Ricky Davis and See if he would post it.
Thanks

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 1 Apr 2005 7:46 am

I wonder what ever happened to Blake Fougerousse (correct spelling?) who was a protege and student of Zane's before even Zane King I believe. I used to read about him in the PSGA newsletter but havent' heard anything about him in years. He was supposed to be a pretty hot player and used Zane's tuning. I heard Zane King one year at Scotty's using the same setup and he was amazing. He did some 6th things and on the E9th style you couldn't tell he wasn't playing a regular E9. I remember he did a couple of bluegrass tempo tunes and was cooking on that steel almost as hot as Jernigan....JH in Va.

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 1 Apr 2005 9:27 am

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 1 Apr 2005 10:37 am

I'd like to see more standard U-12 instructional material on the market. I don't believe that promoting radically different pedal steel tunings is in the best interest of the community.

Someone who understands pedal steel can figure out how to play Zane Beck's tuning without much difficulty if he wants to. Someone who doesn't understand the pedal steel yet might happen upon your teaching material and get started down the road less traveled unintentionally. With three more or less standard tunings (E9, C6, U-12) and one emerging (Sacred Steel E7), there's already a lot of confusion in the minds of beginners.

This is the reason that I've never published any real instruction for my diatonic tuning or promoted it. My original paper about it was overly enthusiastic and misleading. Anyone who has asked me about it in recent years has walked away with warnings and disclaimers.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 1 Apr 2005 11:16 am

First let me say that I appreciate all the work you have done for the community, Bob. I love the diatonic tuning, in fact I'm playing it now and I have enjoyed all the work you have put into it.

I know one tuning doesn't fit all, but I have tried to approach it from a different perspective. From my research, Zane's purpose was to create a Universal tuning with the least amount of floors and knees.

Now I feel I'm approaching this from a balanced perspective. I never new Zane, the first time I ever heard him play was off of the last album he made. FOR ME that was the sound I wanted to produce. I am partial to 1st Inversion chords underlying with the melody on top. That is the way I play piano. Inversions sound great and thicken up the sound.

Bud Carter suggested to me that you play the steel the way you think and between your diatonic and Zane's tuning these have been most enjoyable.

Jerry Clardy · Post by **Jerry Clardy** » 1 Apr 2005 9:18 pm

I have interest in Zane Beck, Julian Tharpe, Maurice Anderson, Curly Chalker, and diatonic tunings and methods. These could be introduced as materials for intermediate players to keep from confusing novice players.

There is already a plethora of material for C6 and E9. The standard U12 is just another variation of these.

Terry Bethel · Post by **Terry Bethel** » 1 Apr 2005 10:27 pm

Dan,
Thank you for sending me Zanes co-pedents, even though I play a D-10, you can always get ideas from other peoples tunings.
I met Zane in the 50's in a little club I was playing in Paragould ,AR. He sat in with the band and I set there with my mouth hanging open, wondering how he got all of those sounds out of my guitar.
He retuned one of the necks and preceded to wear it out.
The next day I sat down behind my guitar and couldn't play anything with the way he had it tuned.
He was a true master,
Terry Bethel
A Zane Beck Fan

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 2 Apr 2005 11:46 am

See there, thats why b0b is in charge of running the forum. He truly cares for EVERYONE. Zane Beck's tuning worked very well for him, and perhaps other established players. But I agree with b0b. It could be detrimental to a beginner who happens to like Zanes influence and wants to play "just like him"...

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 2 Apr 2005 12:34 pm

When I was in college, I had a chance to play professionally on trumpet for a Jazz Player by the name of Maynard Ferguson. Now there was a standard regarding what trumpet you played in college and what mouthpiece was considered acceptable. The Conservative Movement said, you play a Bach Trumpet, with a 3C or 1C mouthpiece and the trumpet must be a medium bore horn. Now this setup was good if you were working on a degree from a local university to going to teach school or play orchestral music.
I didn't follow the standard path. I wanted to play like a Maynard so when in High School my Mom got me a MF Holton Large Bore with a Maynard Ferguson Jettone Mouthpiece which was considered the dark side of the horn world because shallow mouthpieces allowed you to play higher. I was looked down on by my professors, and instructors until it come time for the "LOUD, HIGH REGISTER" SOLOS and no one else could do it. They didn't like what I was playing but at half time football show in college they sure loved to show off that curly headed boy that could make a trumpet scream.
What made the difference?

The right approach, and right equipment. Maybe it's just me, but I don't like being like everybody else. I don't want sound or play like the others, it was Zane that appealed to me.

I feel we do new players an injustice to begin with. Most all the materials out there by the top guys, "FOR THE MOST PART" teaches you to play as they do, I have yet to find a course, except for Winnie's book to try to teach the logic of how to play a steel guitar. I see this everyday, being a Microsoft Certified System Engineer people come in and want me to tell them how to do something. Wait they say, let me get a pen, and I tell them, If you have to write down the steps you don't understand the concept.

Unless you understand what your playing and how you play it, you will never be any better than the book you have to learn the riff from. You will never surpass the ability to go beyond the technique given to you and thus it becomes a technique or lick and not a concept.

I want to see players come out with new styles and develop their musical abilities to take this instrument to the next generation.

If the three major tunings sufficed somebody needs to tell Robert that he is playing the wrong tuning. Humm when is the last time we had Mr. Green or some of the others tour with Eric Clapton?
Thus in closing it is my conclusion when you say "Zane Beck" you've said it all. Did he not create the first universal tuning? Don't take my word for it check the forum

Good Day
[This message was edited by Dan Burnham on 02 April 2005 at 12:38 PM.]

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 3 Apr 2005 4:39 am

i concur. a tuning is like an optimization problem with the constraints being the number of strings, pedals etc and the function to optimize being how smoothly you can make it work with the distribution of sounds that YOU want to hear. i wish that more people wanted to hear different things and then had to understand how to make it work. zane beck and sacred steel are great examples. i have also studied sneaky petes b6 tuning and leavitts 6 string lap tuning as they are good examples of minimalist solutions to harmonic function.
i too was ostracized by american clarinet players for using a boosey hawkes large bore clarinet and playing with vibrato like the english players did but was also sought out by other musicians for chamber and orchestral work.

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 3 Apr 2005 6:17 am

Ebb,
cool on the boosey hawkes, I know what your talking about. I learned in 1st year Music Theory in college "No Parallel 5th's or octaves" In year two we learned there were no rules and that you could do what you want.
There are only a few like John Faddas, and Alan Vizzutti that could do it all on the same equipment.
I've concluded it is whatever works for you, and Zane works for me.
Thanks for the reply.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 3 Apr 2005 7:57 am

I've been playing the Universal tuning since 1971. It's a version of Maurice's original copedent. I used to think in terms of 9th OR 6th styles. Recently, after a 12 year hiatus from playing, I've returned to pickin' and have taken on a whole different mind-set.

I'm trying to incorporate BOTH concepts into a unified style. After all, the guitar can access both "sounds" with the movenent of ONE knee lever. So, why not "un-learn" that there has to be a separation between E9 and B6(C6) and merge the two?

I know there are those that think the two sounds have distinctly different purposes, but, as for the Universal tuning, I disagree. I find that there is a very interesting "sound" to be heard when one isn't mentally limited to one or the other. Thinking of the Universal tuning as a single unified concept frees up my mind to play with new chordal structures and melody lines that previously were not available or thought of as appropriate.

IMHO, I think that A universal tuning is the future. It may not be the ones we currently use, but, none the less, will be universal. Extended E9th is an example of that direction. And, I think more and more universal players will cause this evolution to accelerate. This may bring about a renewed interest in the sound of the steel guitar, who knows?

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Every day is a Great day,
Mike
(aka Sideman)

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Apr 2005 8:36 am

I agree with you, Dan, and I'm not suggesting that we try to stifle innovation or experimentation. My only concern with publishing courseware for Zane Beck's tuning is that it adds even more confusion in the minds of beginners.

There is no need for courseware among intermediate and advanced players who understand the concepts well enough to read the copedent chart. I'm sure that many of us could adapt to the tuning fairly quickly if we had the inclination, without specialized instruction. But imagine the questions from beginners: "Which U-12 should I play: E9/B6 or Beck?" "How can I put the Beck tuning on a Fender 400?" etc.

I think that beginners need to understand that it's the player, not the tuning, that makes the sound. By the time you get to a U-12 class guitar, you can pretty much play any style you want on any tuning. Beginners need to see a clear path to mastery of the instrument, not a confusing decision tree of "which tuning is right for me?".

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 3 Apr 2005 9:25 am

1. Zane Beck's Tuning is a Universal tuning to begin with. If you will look at Grahams post, he fully explains that.

2. There are less pulls on Zane's Universal Tuning then on any other tuning.

3. I have in the past put Zane's Tuning on a all pull sierra guitar with no problems.

4. I did a survey locally here in my area, and I realize that stats can have a margin of error. But out of 10 Steel Players within a 50 mile radius of where I live, can't read tablature.

5. And even less won't even tackle change the copedant on their own.

I realize we could go on and on regarding this subject and that is one thing I appreciate Bob about you and the forum. We have the freedom for discussion and debate.

Ok, here is the end result that we have failed at:

You being a programmer will agree with this. There is a logic to playing just like programming a computer which you and I do for a living.

We must come up with a way to create a method to teach the logic of playing steel. I get tickled at the programming students at the local university, they come to me regarding programming in C++. They don't even understand what header files do, they just want me to help them pass the course.

All Zane was doing IMHO was trying to promote Universal Tuning with the least amount of floors and knees. It was evolutional tuning.

I took Zane's tuning and some of the others and asked one my professors from UTM in Music Theory to break down the possiblilties and options. Ultimately, Zane's tuning came up with the most flexibility with the least amount of movement.

In closing, the ZB 12 string Keyless is not a shade tree guitar you'd want to sat out and change yourself, but if you ask Bobby Bowman, he'll tell you others feel the same way about the Emmons Push Pull.

With regards to intermediate and Upper developmental training, I respectfully disagree. If this philosophy was true to traditonal music, all major universitys would only have training the first year.

And last but least, to my knowledge other Zane King, is the only steel guitar player to ever be recruited by Berkley School of Music and to be offered a full paid ticket to study there until they found out how old he was at the age of 13. Yes he was Zane's student.

It's all good

[This message was edited by Dan Burnham on 03 April 2005 at 10:41 AM.]

David Yannuzzi · Post by **David Yannuzzi** » 3 Apr 2005 10:14 am

Really interesting post Dan. I wish you luck and look foward to updates .Thanks-Dave

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 3 Apr 2005 10:23 am

David,
Thanks, ultimately I'm developing this material for myself. My approach will be to develop it from the ground up. I realize it will take sometime, I will approach it from a systematic approach. I love this tuning so much and the only regret I have is I didn't move to it 2 years ago.
Thanks to Don for the Zane Beck Tape and Bob for the Forum I have been able to put the pieces together.

Dan

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 3 Apr 2005 1:35 pm

Dan, Good post. I met Zane Beck in 1968 in Northern,California. We talked about his tuning as I could see that he had something. He gave me his tuning on a sheet of paper and signed it.

I agree that it is a pretty good Universal tuning with only 4 pedals and 5 knee levers. He could play all the E9 stuff and the 6th stuff. I liked that P3 with the C# to D along with the usual A pedal B's to C#. But I got that D on a Knee lever.

If you will notice the first 6 strings are exaclty like the revised Lean and Mean E6 tuning that I use.

If you change the 7th F#string on his tuning to E and the 8th string D to C#, you have a full E6 tuning which is what I have always mostly played. You can get the D and F# on a pedal or knee lever and have Zanes' tuning.
I also drop the 9th,10th,12th string a whole tone to get the Curly Chalker Bottom, going into the sub-dominant. I had that on my Millenium. Jr.Knight set it up for me.

I liked Zane, he was the nicest guy to meet and I admired his playing and could see the possibilities with his tuning. But I decided to stick with my E6 basic tuning.

However, even though I don't play E9/B6 ,it and never felt comfortable with it, I have to admit that the E9/B6 universal tuning with 7 and 5 is one whereby one can play any kind of music he wants all on one neck. All the E9 and C6 tab and lessons, etc....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 3 Apr 2005 3:15 pm

al,E and modern mechanics with splits were a big influence on my tuning. http://www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/almarcus7.htm http://steelguitarforum.com/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20011227-1-008515.html http://b0b.com/tunings/edbierly.html#update

[This message was edited by ebb on 03 April 2005 at 04:16 PM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 4 Apr 2005 7:00 am

I think it'd be fun to have a double 12 with the E9/B6 on one neck and Zane's on the other. That'd give you enough for 5 lifetimes of pickin' and studyin'....JH in Va.

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 4 Apr 2005 8:54 pm

I'm a little surprised that the subject of adapting Zane's tuning to 10 strings (for beginners and die-hard 10-string players) didn't come up here! Simply eliminate strings 10 and 12 (G# and B). You will still have an incredibly versatile tuning to work with,coupled with a very useful pitch range.
E13,in all of its variations,has long been proven to be an awesome and powerful tuning for chords,6th style playing,and E9th style playing as well.
To each his own,but I vote "YES",let's make the switch and quit carrying those monstrously heavy double-necks around!(Am I radical or what?)
~~W.C.~~[This message was edited by Wayne Cox on 04 April 2005 at 09:58 PM.]

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 5 Apr 2005 3:23 am

You go Wayne, really now what would happen to the the companies getting rich off all those heavy double necks ha! ha! Ok a bit much,
I am in the process of having a 12 string lap keyless being made as we speak. I finished a recording lastnight where I played a tune where I did the bass guitar and the chords on the E13 tuning on one track and then did the melody on the other.
I also had another Idea what about a lapsteel with pull out leg holders, not only could you play it, you could eat off of it while watching tv and we could get medicare to approve them as a custom 12 string walker

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 5 Apr 2005 3:33 am

Buddy E. recorded an entire album (The Rainbow Album) using a form of the E13th tuning and did very well with it. Red Rhodes also used a form of it but in Eb so it's been around for a while and has been featured in popular recordings.....JH in Va.

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 05 April 2005 at 04:34 AM.]