Converting rods to cables?

[b0b]

The pull of cables on those old Fender guitars is a fascinating sound. It's not linear like the pull of a rod. It sounds more organic somehow, like it's bending on a curve. Click to listen. That's a Fender 1000. Hear what I mean? It's not just the tone of the guitar - there's a thing happening with cable pulls that you just can't get from rods.

Has anyone ever converted a modern steel guitar from rods to cable action? Could be an interesting project.

[Mitch Ellis]

If I had a cheap pull rod guitar that was an absolute basket case, I might would consider changing it over to cables just for the challenge of the project and to have a little fun with the end results, but never on a high quality steel guitar. But I did hear that bending sound you mentioned and enjoyed listening to the track. Is that you playing on the track? It is really good playing. Very clean.

Mitch

[Dave Zirbel]

I've wondered about that as well. I like the way the pulled note snaps into place. ZB's would work well with cables because the pull stops at the endplate. A permanent style guitar work well too. I think the standard modern scissor finger would be more challenging.

I don't think cables are inferior to rods at all. I play my Fenders all the time at home and they never go out of tune. Super fun guitars!

If I ever get the time I will experiment with this. I have a basement full of "project" guitars.....and Fenders!

[Charlie McDonald]

It's true, it made you sound Sneakier right away. Cool.

[Nathan French]

I've had a Fender for a few weeks now and have been tweaking on the guts here and there. Other than the cables rubbing on other cables it seems like not a bad way to go. If I were DIYing a steel I could see using cables, it certainly reduces the amount of parts involved in the linkage.

[b0b]

Mitch - yes, that's me^*. Thanks for the compliment. If anyone can tell me how to get that chord I played on the C6th neck at 1:48, I'd appreciate it. I can't seem to find it. The C6th was just the standard 4 pedals: http://b0b.com/tunings/b0bF1000.png

Dave, isn't the Fender design a scissors changer? I don't really remember how it works.

*I'm the bass player on the track, too.

[Harold Gilliam]

The pull of cables on those old Fender guitars is a fascinating sound. It's not linear like the pull of a rod. It sounds more organic somehow, like it's bending on a curve. Click to listen. That's a Fender 1000. Hear what I mean? It's not just the tone of the guitar - there's a thing happening with cable pulls that you just can't get from rods.

Has anyone ever converted a modern steel guitar from rods to cable action? Could be an interesting project.

I love cable guitars they are quick & quiet if I could figure out how to adjust the pedals at the end plate I might give it a go

[Dave Zirbel]

Dave, isn't the Fender design a scissors changer? I don't really remember how it works.

Yes, but the stops are on the endplate as opposed to the nylon nut being the stop.

[Rick Abbott]

While not exactly to the point of b0b's question, this is why I like old, sloppy, steels. My R&B Sho~Bud and Miller pull-release have less-than-immediate pedal pulls.

Good question b0b

[Scott Duckworth]

B0b, that's some gooood playing!

The old cable steels remind me of the "gospel bass singer sliding into the note" sound... hehe.

With the newer materials for cable now, a cable guitar could be a fairly stable instrument.

I could see a pull / release with the tuning nut still at the end of the guitar could be done quite easily.

[Bob Carlucci]

nice playing b0b!.. the Fender changer is so much different than what is used today, I believe it was knife edge instead of an axle, and the stops are at the changer itself. Add to that the fact the cables were wound around a pulley at the front of the guitar, then a straight run to the changer, plus the fact that the Fender was MASSIVE block of wood, without a frame.. today most steels use minimal wood and and an aluminum frame... I doubt using a Fender style pull system would give a modern steel, that unique Fender vibe.

I will say this however, and I have said it here before.. The original Fender pull system was a fantastic system if you knew how to set it up properly.. my cable Fenders [ 4 over the years] all played as well as my modern steels, and stayed in tune always.. Once dialed in they were every bit as stable as anything I ever owned.. If some modern steel builder decided to take the original Fender design, using modern parts, and say a precision ball bearing roller in front, knee levers etc, use a use a pickup wound to Fender specs, and lose some of the massive weight from wood, a similar sounding and feeling but "better" steel could be built , and they might sell a lot of them.. its just not what most steel guitarists want these days.. Everyone wants a massive sound with all day sustain.. Personally, I think the old cable Fenders are oe of the best sounding, most musical pedal steels ever built... bob

[Jack Stoner]

I had a Fender 2000, my first Pedal Steel. Changing pedal setups was easy with the Fender. But I always had to tune (some) raises or lowers every time I set it up. I only kept the Fender 2000 about a year and a half and replaced it with a new PP Emmons D-10. Except for not breaking strings, I didn't miss the Fender or its weight.

[Marty Broussard]

B0B,
The amount of work depends upon how much you want to convert your existing guitar. (I hope that makes sense)

I did an experiment wherein I used a modern S10 with a stack of pulleys mounted at the keyhead endplate(bought the pulley assembly from Jim Palenscar). Above the A&B pedal I mounted a small round pulley and hooked a cable to each pedal in an extra hole next to the pedal rod so that when you pressed the pedal down it pulled a bicycle brake cable(attached in the extra hole next to the pedal rod) that was guided along the front apron until it turned the corner around the stacked pully assembly on the endplate and then went towards the changer. I'd cut the pull-rods between the Right knee levers for the and welded about 2" of small hollow square tubing to the shortened round pull-rods and inserted/crimped the cable coming from the endplate into the square tubing. The square part of the tubing was passing thru a guide plate that was attached to the bottom of the neck. It had several square holes like a grid(think of the old push-pull round guides that kept everything neat) so that the tubes were all aligned AND you could still tune the pull with the nylon tuner without twisting/binding the cable because the guide plate was holding the square tubein place. I only did it with a couple of pulls to see if it would work. I liked it because of the same reasons you mentioned PLUS I could see the nylon tuners moving and knew which ones to tune whereas on the old Fenders nothing was moving on the endplate at the changer and I would get confused.(of course I was 11 years old when I was playing the Fender 400 too)
If you do it, make the guide plate out of Teflon or something "quite" so that when the square tubes move back and forth you won't hear them. If I'd thought anyone else would have been interested I'd taken photos. Btw, I only modified the pulls on strings 5&6 and once the pulls were tuned I brought the guitar outside in the sunlight and extreme cold rooms those pulls didn't seem to detune as much as when the were complete riddled assemblies.
I didn't finish it because I simply got tired of working on it. My patience is limited and I'd rather play them than work on them. Hope the info helps.

[Dick Sexton]

Marty, I caught that, welding at 11 years old. In the south and years ago, when our parents turned their boys into men and prepared them for real life. Now, you'd be lucky to get them away from a TV or video game long enough to take out the trash... But not in my house. Nor yours I'll bet! Pick on brother!

[Marty Broussard]

Bob, I edited my original post to attempt at clarifying it.

If you want, I could try to make some decent sketches for you and email them.

[Tony Prior]

Bob that was great, I don't care if it's cables, rods or rubber bands !

Evidently YOU live on the West Coast because I haven't learned to play like that in NC !

( But I'm working on it )

[b0b]

Marty, that sounds like it was a very interesting experiment. I'm not competent enough to do that kind of work myself, so the drawings wouldn't help me much.

Do you still have that guitar? Who made it originally?

[Marty Broussard]

Bob,
It was an Excel. I used it because the body was made of aluminum and I knew it could take the stresses of the pulleys I'd mounted on the front apron. The guitar sounded awesome and was stable. You may be able to mount a flat aluminum plate to the apron of ur Desert Rose and get favorable results.

[Willie Sims]

BOB,THAT CHORD IN C6 SOUND'S LIKE WHAT I GET IN B FLAT LOWERING THE SECOND STRING AND RAISING SIX,A HALF TONE, OR 13FRET STRING,3 ,4,5 ,A PEDAL DOWN. COULD BE A DIMINISH.

[Willie Sims]

BOB,THAT CHORD IN C6 SOUND'S LIKE WHAT I GET IN B FLAT LOWERING THE SECOND STRING AND RAISING SIX,A HALF TONE, OR 13FRET STRING,3 ,4,5 ,A PEDAL DOWN. COULD BE A DIMINISH.

after listening again think i am wrong. if you are playing in, A, CHORD TRY STRING 3 4 5 PEDAL 5 DOWN FRET 14 BACK 12 BACK TO 9 .KIND OF LIKB A SLIDE BACK DIMINISH.I MAY BE WRONG,WON;T BE THE FIFST TIME.