Intonation question

[Larry Haas]

Instead of placing the bar over the fret, I am thinking I can adjust the adjustable bridge so I can place the bar right behind the fret so I can see it when playing. I haven't tried this but wondering if anyone has adjusted the intonation to do this. The fret board is stationary so if I move the individual intonation adjustment back or make the strings a little longer would that make the bar play just so I can see the fret while playing?? I think it would be easier to play if I can see the fret instead of guessing I am over the fret.
Hope all understands what I am asking.

Larry

[Andy Volk]

Larry, the parallax factor is something we all need to learn when we play steel guitar. It takes time and eye/ear practice to get used to compensating for it.

I certainly understand why you are asking this question and over the years, many people have come up with various schemes to try to make the technique of steel guitar playing easier - these range from pedals, knee and hand levers, to new tunings and even bars with springs, rubber bands and extension devices.

Respectfully, learn to play your instrument instead. Embrace it for what it is and respect the 100+ years of playing experience that has codified a set of techniques and tunings that work. In practice, a steel player is constantly intonating with his or her tonebar. If you try to artificially adjust for intonation instead of training your eye and ear to play correctly, IMHO, that's a recipe for unhappiness down the road.

[Larry Haas]

Thanks Andy for the reply
I don't do too bad hitting the fret but being 72 years old, it just doesn't hit the spot sometimes and it shows in the sound of adjusting the bar to what you want to get. I have been lately adjusting the bar by angling it a little to the right and that way the fret shows up better and I seem to hit it more than not hit it. Just an idea that popped up in my head of adjusting the intonation a little so I could use the bar straight up. I use a stevens bar and others also. Round bars are touch and go for hitting the fret so I stay away from them.
If I was 25 years old I don't think I would be having this problem but I'm not, soooooo I am trying to adjust for this problem.
Thanks

Larry

[Charlie McDonald]

The distance between the bar and the fret will change as you go up the neck, so any benefit at the octave will be moot near the nut.
The effect would be like having a fretboard too short or too long for the guitar.
I would have to agree with Andy. Part of the process is relying on the ear as much as the eye to find the note.

[Larry Haas]

After thinking about it Charlie, you are right. Just a thought though. I guess I'll just have to practice some more. It usually sounds good but every now and then I'll miss the fret and when I correct for it, it makes the song sound like I am trying to find the chord or note.

Thanks

Larry

[Stefan Robertson]

After thinking about it Charlie, you are right. Just a thought though. I guess I'll just have to practice some more. It usually sounds good but every now and then I'll miss the fret and when I correct for it, it makes the song sound like I am trying to find the chord or note.

Thanks

Larry

3 options.

Start training your ear to single notes per string and chords how they should sound in tune.

Or

Play with an accurate tuner on like a Peterson

OR

Use lots of Vibrato like Hawaiians

[George Piburn]

Playing Intervals from open to every fret will get you a long way.

It is of course boring repetition - and one of the most effective means to good intonation.

On every single string play open then play fret one, not sliding , - pick the bar up and move over and place it down on the fret line.

Then open - fret 2 and so on up the neck to fret 24.

Now to drill it in even deeper , play open - then jump to fret 12 --- open - jump to fret 11 and so on down the neck.

After all of the stings singularly , move to full chord grips, 3 note grips , every inversion of them and later go for 4 note grips.

All of this time consuming tedious practice will increase one's intonation by leaps and bounds.

To keep this going try 2 note angle bar slant scales , both up and down the neck in every key.

Try to go from Open to fret 12 and play the scales downward - 4 note groups , (Open) Do (fret 12) -- Do - Ti - La - So ---- Fa - Me - Ra - Do

The Big Picture Idea is to train your hands and ears to play open and next play a fretted note with accurate intonation, quality Bar Control -

All of this with Zero Vibrato.

[Larry Haas]

Thanks George for the info. I think most of my problem is visual. I have 3 lap steels that are different scale lengths and changing from one to the other is part of the problem. I guess I need to just stick to one length. That way I could get used to where to go with the bar by way of repetition.
Thinking a little more about intonation.
I guess I could move the fret board so I would have eye to bar and fret by visual sight. Intonation wouldn't change, just eye to bar/fret would feel better. I use a stevens bar and as of now, I tilt the bar a little to the right so to see the fret line up with the edge of the bar. This works OK but would like to do it like it is supposed to be placed. Or maybe just play Hawaiian songs since they do a lot of sliding.
I do a lot of practicing. Every day for hours working with a DAW.
Enough for now. Back to playing.
Thanks

Larry

[David M Brown]

Thanks George for the info. I think most of my problem is visual. I have 3 lap steels that are different scale lengths and changing from one to the other is part of the problem. I guess I need to just stick to one length.

I play long and short scale steels and I find it necessary to split my practice and playing time. I tend to prefer short scales, but my 8 string is a longer scale.

Although I may modify that!

Anyway I find the eye gets me close and my ear gets my in tune.

I've also tried playing in the dark or with my eyes closed...not yet ready for the stage with that trick!

[Stefan Robertson]

....

I've also tried playing in the dark or with my eyes closed...not yet ready for the stage with that trick!

Emmons used to practice in the dark. To be stage ready. Tried a few times same as you I'm not there yet.