playing in minor keys

[Jaim Zuber]

Hey all,

I'm pretty green on the steel (been playing about 7 months) but have started looking for projects to play with. I found a guy who could use some steel. He dropped off a CD of his songs and, sure enough, most of the tunes are in minor keys. The licks I've been picking up off of old Honkytonk and Bakerfield records aren't doing me much good. I know the basic minor positions, so I can make the changes and get around the neck some, but am kinda scratching my head on what to do next.

I searched the forum and found some good stuff here...
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/008051.html

...but would be grateful for hearing more on how you guys approach playing in minor keys. Different ways of connecting the chords and such.

Also, any suggestions on some good recordings to learn (and get inspiration) from would be appreciated too.

Here's the guy I'll be playing with http://www.jamesapollo.com/music.htm Cool stuff.

[Joey Ace]

Did ya see this one: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/008550.html

[Jaim Zuber]

Yup. I saw that thread, but it wasn't really what I was looking for.

I know the basic ii, iii & vi minor chords and can make the changes around the neck just fine. I'm looking for more info on connecting them musically, adding some fills or whatever. There's already 2 guitars, so just playing the chords is a bit redundant.

I'm looking for some ideas to work on, or great examples of good minor key steel backup. Anyone got anything?

[Les Pierce]

Well, here's a trick that will work in the meantime:

Try this. Have someone vamp a rythym with just a straight G chord. You play along just like you usually do, then, have them switch to E minor, and you keep playing like your still in G. A lot of the G licks will work in E minor.

All you need to know is the relative minor of each of your major keys, and your good to go. (C/Am, D/Bm, F/Dm, E/C#m, etc.).

Try it, it works!

Les

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Strat,Tele
Dekley S-10

[Robert Porri]

Jaim,

I listened and tried playing along with the mp3's on the site. (The song writing sounds pretty good by the way). I've only been playing a little over a year myself so we may be pretty much in a similar situation with little PSG time but a decent basic understanding of theory. I don't know if this is an approach you'd be looking for, but if I were to "fill" on this type of music on my 6 string, I'd be thinking pentatonic. I'd add other things too, but I'd start there. I tried some on the mp3s and they fit pretty well. Email me if you like.

I wanted to add this link to one of Doug Beaumier's pages thinking it might help.
http://www.dougbsteel.com/PentPage.htm

Bob P.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Robert Porri on 03 March 2005 at 09:53 PM.]</p></FONT>

[Charles Turpin]

I think the trick to what he is wanting to know here is a hard trick that is very easy explained. When you play a major scale, the half steps in the scales are between the 3rd and fourth notes and 7th and octave note of the chords. But by moving the half steps in the scale you will create different scales, which this is all we actualy do when we are playing in modes. By moving the halfsteps in between the 2&3rd notes and the 6th&7th notes this will create a minor seventh scale. The more ways you move them half steps with in the scale the more different types of scales work over different chords. But this has always been my solution to working on songs with a lot of minors in them .Another thing i do is when i am playing harmonies is to try and use the other tones other than the root minor as the guide tones to the chords this adds a lot of color to what you are working on. But feel free to also play the third harmonies starting at the sixth interval of the major third interval scale you can come up with some real good licks that way.you can also play the one chord sharp fall in chords i call them to give the minors a more spanish type sound if you want. By this i mean if you are using the G key with Eminor,Aminor and Bminor chord combination. Use the Fcale to fall into the Eminor scale and the Bb minor to fallinto the Aminor when used and Cminor to fallinto the Bminor with the chords, The band or back up doesnt necesarrily have to be playing the first chord as long as you are useing a minimal amount of notes and intervals before you fall into the notes of the minor chord scale. this is a very good way to use the rule of smooth to tension to resolving this works real good with minors. But these are just a few ideas i do over minors what you are talking about.

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[Mickey Lawson]

Chris, did you mean Fm-scale to Em? Or, Bb-Major scale to Am? Confused, thanks.

[J D Sauser]

We've had this before and this is a corrected version of what I posted:

I long discussed the "minor key issue" with my mentor Maurice Anderson. He has a very simple way to look at it and that's how he teaches it to his students, or to me at least.
Mainly I understand his argument in such a way that there no such thing as a minor key.
Why do minor keyes look strange to us? because the typical progression intervalls are all messed up. As we learn to play, based on music in Mayor keyes, we get used to I, -II or II7th, -III, IV. V(7th), -VI or VI7th chords and their possitions on our fretboard, a concept that can easily get to be chalanged with the introduction of a song in a minor key. Still a "minor" song sounds right to our ears, ust with that "minor sound" which is only created by the bass playing a different line as we would expect from our Mayor routine. Why does that messed up progression sound natural to us? Because, and this is how I believe Maurice builds his system up, a traditional progression (in other words, a familiar line up of intervals between the chords) is usually hidden into it. And that progression can be made visible when one choses to call a different chord, a Mayor chord of the progression the key, and then re-numbers the whole progression starting with that chord being I (tonic). You just have to find that chord. In some or most lucky cases, it's the relative Mayor to the minor key chord, but sometimes one has to look further. In some "hard core cases" that chord may also never be played (a fictous helping chord has to be written).
I have seen this work for most songs and it is a great approach to lay out a song into a more familiar, more playable way. However, I don't 100% agree with my mentor in that the newly designated key really is the key, and here is why: I have a hard time hearing the root chord on more complex songs... I get undecided... but I allways hear the V7th... even if it's not played(!!) (just like Maurice can hear a I chord that isn't being played during the entire song!). Anyway, If I take, let's say, Summer Time Blues in the original minor key, I do hear (locate) the V7th (to that Minor I). If I re-organize the song so that the key becomes Mayor and all the chords line up nicely... the chord I still do hear as the V7th has obviously shifted position but still sounds as the V7th (to me).
It becomes even more so apparent with songs built up on the -I, -IV, V - Minor Blues theme like Minor Swing, or worse The Thrill Is Gone which goes -I, -IV, -V. In all those cases I do hear the V (and yes, even the -V) as the turning point in the whole piece.
I hope any of this makes some sense to somebody... it does to me, at times.

... J-D.