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Topic: New Brand PSG? |
Ron !
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Posted 3 Mar 2005 12:27 pm |
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Would there be room on the market for new brands?Some of the forumites are building their own steelguitars and some of them(I think)are thinking about selling them.
Would any of you guys buy such a steel guitar?Or stick with the ones that are currently running the show.
Ron
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Mar 2005 2:05 pm
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I think there's plenty room for another steel on the market...if it offers something you can't already get. To make something that pretty much copies what's already out there would be rather senseless. You have to offer features, a sound, or a "look" that's not already available to be successful. (Of course, there are some who aren't worried about success, they just want to try to build one. That's okay, too.) An ultra-cheap price would be a winner too, but that's kinda hard for a one-man operation.
My thoughts...
To date, no one other than Fender has attacked the problem of making it easy to change pedal setups. When I played an old Fender 1000, I'd often change the pedals during our 15-minute break for a special sound, a special song, or a guest player. I can't imagine doing that with any pedal steel being made today!  |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2005 6:16 pm
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| Donny.. What I'd like to see is a reissue Fender 400-800/1000-2000 with a better changer system / quick change cable pull system /full compliment of knee levers... and the cast alumag external frame.. Original spec Fender pickups too!!..a cross between all the great features of the original Fenders and some modern day technology... MUST HAVE the OLD Fender sound!!!... If they could price them nice, they would sell PLENTY!!! Just MHO!!! bob [This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 04 March 2005 at 05:09 AM.] |
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Ray Riley
From:
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2005 9:58 pm
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Bob and Don, I at one time owned a Fender 1000. Would not stay in tune with your so called cable system. Worst system yet. Ray
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Sho-Bud S-12 and a brand new N112
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2005 5:15 am
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Ray... I respect your opinion, but I've yet to hear anyone else say thier old Fenders would not stay in tune... I wouldn't know,never having owned one.
However, I think a redesigned cable system with its quick change capabilities would work fine on a modern steel.. An awful lot of old out of tune clunkers used rods too. Technology has advanced light years since the 60's... I think its time for a modern cable pull system,,, just my opinion... bob |
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Ron !
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Posted 4 Mar 2005 5:27 am
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And that opinion is shared Bob.
But with the modern times and everybody wanting atleast 4 pedals and 5 kneelevers.Wont that be a h*ll of a lot of cable?
I am with you on this one about quick changing your set-up though.But I see limitations.
For example.I am building a D12/11 right now with 10 pedals and 10 kneelevers.Do you think that there will be enough room under that cabinet for all those cables?And still give you the space to change your pedal or lever set-up?
Ron
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Nikaro SD10 4x6 ,Nikaro SD10 4x5,2 Peavey Ultratube 112
European Steel Guitar Forum
[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 04 March 2005 at 06:24 AM.] |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2005 8:01 am
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I don't like to throw cold water on anybody's brainstorm, but aren't there enough different brands of pedal steels out there already? Just how much can be done with "wood and wire"!?!? 
Erv |
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Ron !
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Joe Alterio
From:
Irvington, Indiana
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Posted 4 Mar 2005 8:45 am
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There are more steel choices than one might imagine.
Zumsteel
Carter
BMI
MSA
Emmons
JCH
Performance
Excel
Mullen
Derby
Williams
Fessenden
Fulawka
Franklin
GFI
Remington
Wilcox
Promat
Pedalmaster
Rayline
Desert Rose
Nikaro
Anapeg
Performance
Marrs
Rains
Lamar
Kline
Sierra |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2005 8:45 am
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Ronald, just a few thoughts along this line...with no disrespect intended to anyone.
Remember the Ford Model a, the Poptop on the aluminum can, etc., etc.
New ideas often come at times when everyone is satiated by the sameness of the marketplace. "It works fine as is", "Why change a good thing", "Don't mess with success" and on and on!! Makes me crazy!
Follow your dreams. They're yours and yours alone. No one else can quite see it from your angle, so you'll have few supporters, and lots of nay-sayers.
I believe there are innovations in pedal steel construction that haven't been dreamed up yet....that will revolutionize the instrument and improve it's already amazing qualities.
There's always room for innovation. So live the dream and make it happen. |
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Ron !
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Posted 4 Mar 2005 9:03 am
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Thanks Mike.
These are the posts that keeps a guy going.Right now it's back to the drawingboard.Just came up with some ideas thanks to Bob.
Also have an idea to come with an all new changer.
One that is not build.Maybe that is the reason to build different brands.Just like Mike said
| Quote: |
| I believe there are innovations in pedal steel construction that haven't been dreamed up yet |
These are the thoughts that keeps a builder going.
Right now the molds for the End-plates are done and will go to the foundry together with the molds for the PUP bracket.
See Erv.The eye does want some too
Ron[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 04 March 2005 at 09:05 AM.] |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2005 10:10 am
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| Ron... I have seen several old Fender cable steels with all the original cables and changer intact with several [up to four!] knee levers added and there is enough room if the design is well layed out. I'm sure it can be done.. I doubt anyone will ever tool up for a cable guitar,but it WOULD work, may save some weight too ... bob |
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Ron !
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Posted 4 Mar 2005 10:43 am
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Bob
I think I will give it a shot and build me a S10 with 3and4.
What could happen?
Maybe it works out so great that I am gonna play it regularly.
Ron
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Nikaro SD10 4x6 ,Nikaro SD10 4x5,2 Peavey Ultratube 112
European Steel Guitar Forum
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 5 Mar 2005 9:38 am
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quote:
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I believe there are innovations in pedal steel construction that haven't been dreamed up yet
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I agree. Probably not in looks and tone, but in the mechanics. As an example from this side of the pond, Peter Schild, builder of the guitar that was copied in the early 90's by Paul Wiesner and sold under Wiesner's name in Europe (and raised quite a few eyebrows), is "back in the business" and has been totally redesigning the undercarriage of his steel in the past months. Once built, this prototype will be extremely serviceable. I am taking some part in the design process. New features that are being designed are:
- a body contact changer with raise as well as lower helper system, making the hardness of the pedals/levers adjustable from close to zero to moderate;
- changer fingers allowing for up to 8 changes per string;
- doubling the possibilities of any pedal/lever.... a mechanical switch for an alternate set of changes;
- a unique halfstop in which the resistance after the stop does not increase. This item has been built and will be added to my guitar next Monday. Yipeeee!
Hans |
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John Sluszny
From:
Brussels, Belgium
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Posted 5 Mar 2005 10:13 am
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| Ron,there will always be room for cleverness and creativity.Dreams come true and miracles can happen when you believe in them. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 5 Mar 2005 10:46 am
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Hans-It sounds like a great working guitar to me with all those features. Carl Dixon was working on a switch that doubled the tunings on each pedal an knee lever. Which Ultimately means less pedals and knee levers to do the same work. Good idea. I wonder how he is doing with his idea.....al 
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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Ron !
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Posted 5 Mar 2005 12:03 pm
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John Thanks for the kind words.Hans that are a lot new features.But the quadruple raise is already available on the "Magnum".
And I wonder.......will there be anyone that wants a quadruple raise and lower?I for one can do with a triple raise triple lower.I can understand that people would like a quadruple raise.But also a lower of that size?Maybe there are some people.
That halfstop you are talking about is something I would like to see.This might be something that I can use.Got any pictures of that Hans?
I am building me a different kind of changer to with full body contact.Just experimenting with it.But you'll never know if this turns out the way I want it to be.
Right now the changeraxle is aprox ¾ of an inch above the body.What if someone takes the jump and puts the axle inside the body?
How would that sound on an all pull changer?
Just some little questions that come to mind.
Come on guys...let the good ideas comin'.
Ron
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Nikaro SD10 4x6 ,Nikaro SD10 4x5,2 Peavey Ultratube 112
European Steel Guitar Forum
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2005 4:00 pm
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In defense of the Fender 1000, some iconic players such as Day, Mooney, Brumley, et al, made some of the most revered recorded steel guitar music on the 1000. Remember "Together Again" by Buck Owens with Tom's gorgeous moving tones?
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 5 Mar 2005 5:09 pm
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| Quote: |
| I think its time for a modern cable pull system,,, |
I'll take that a step further, Bob, and say that I think it's time for a modern rod-pull system! I'm convinced that most of the pull rods could be eliminated. Having a single pedal rod hooked to a shaft that sprouts 4 long pull-rods going to the changer just seems like "ancient engineering" to me. Also (a simpler improvement), I think the pulling bellcranks (those things fastened on the crossrods) could stand some re-engineering, too. On a modern pedal steel, you should be able to move, remove, or reposition, any single pull-rod without having to disassemble something else. How many times have we had to remove the rods from pedal "X" to get to the rods on pedal "Y"?
There's no excuse for that...other than poor design/engineering. |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 6 Mar 2005 3:47 am
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Ron, I am happy, too, with my triple raise/triple lower changer, but an extension might be necessary in guitars with the switch I mentioned. BTW, Carl Dixon commented on his tuning including his switchover mechanism almost two years ago in the thread http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004026.html I will ask him off-line if he ever installed the switch.
As of today, I haven't seen the new half-stop, so, no photos yet, but Peter Schild told me it is encased in a small plastic box.... I'll insist to see the drawings ... It has to be small because it's going to be installed on my RKR lever, and my S-12 is chockful of pull rods in that area. I assume that an extra bell crank will be necessary on the side.
Hans[This message was edited by Hans Holzherr on 06 March 2005 at 03:48 AM.] |
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Ron !
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Posted 6 Mar 2005 4:17 am
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Donny.
What would you think of having the changer axle imbedded in the cabinet?Just a little idea I have.Wouldn't that cause less string breakage?I am trying to get me some molds done with a new kind of Pick-Up bracket with that type of changer in there.The only thing that is a minor is that if one of those fingers might break I will have to take of the entire PUP bracket to fix it.My opinion is that with the axle imbedded in the cabinet the sound will change.Give me some comments on this Donny.
Hans.
If you can get me some pictures or drawings that would be nice.  I think that your friend will not give away his secret untill somebody buys his steel guitar and let a builder look under the hood.
I sure hope you can send me a picture of your steel guitar and how it looks like underneath.
Thanks for the comments Hans.
Ron
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Nikaro SD10 4x6 ,Nikaro SD10 4x5,2 Peavey Ultratube 112
European Steel Guitar Forum
[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 06 March 2005 at 04:18 AM.] |
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Hans Holzherr
From:
Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland
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Posted 6 Mar 2005 5:09 am
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I'll do that, Ron. There is also another half-stop design I did that works with a permanent magnet. It exists only "on the drawing board". But if it can be done without magnets, it's already obsolete....
Hans
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