Sho~Bud Super Pro II question

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 24 Feb 2005 1:05 pm

Bobbe, Ricky, or whoever might know...
What was the difference between the Super Pro and the Super Pro II? I know Bobbe said only 7 Super Pro II's were made, but I was wondering what the physical/mechanical differences might have been.

Lem

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 24 Feb 2005 1:13 pm

I don't know LEM,but i'd like to know toooooo.mabe one of them will tell us.
farris

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 24 Feb 2005 5:24 pm

Well I certainly can't answer that question; as I lost interest with the Sho~bud after around 1976.
Good luck in your quest.

------------------
Ricky Davis

Rebel™ and Ricky's Audio Clips
www.mightyfinemusic.com
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@austin.rr.com

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 24 Feb 2005 5:46 pm

Thank you RICKY,looks like its gonna be up to BOBBE to tell us the best sho-bud ever made,just got to know!!! farris

Duane Marrs · Post by **Duane Marrs** » 24 Feb 2005 6:06 pm

Lem, Duane is out picking tonight but I'll try to give as much information as I can. I believe Bobbe is right about the number between 7 and 12 I've heard Duane say,too. Duane was in research and development when the first Super Pro was designed by he and Paul Franklin, Sr. in the late seventies. The Super Pro II was first built in Arkansas when Sho-Bud relocated there. They copied a Marrs guitar for many of the changes such as pedal stops etc.. The middle of the guitar has a cross member aluminum piece down the center of the guitar where the front and back boards join. Cross shafts go through it. The endplates have etched lines in the sides for a different look. However, the changes are very subtle to the original Super Pro. Dan Dugmore has a blue one we work on from time to time and I believe Doug Jernigan has one as well. I believe they still used the 24" scale, but last year I had a Super Pro with a 24 1/4 " which is rare. Next time I talk to Dan I'll try to get a picture of it and post it for you, if you would like. Hope this is helpful and will update if Duane has more info. tomorrow. Jeff Surratt

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 25 Feb 2005 12:26 am

Jeff,
Thanks so much for your reply. I don't know what I was thinking, or I would have posted the question to the attention of you and Duane too, because if anybody knows Sho~Bud, it's you guys!

Yes, I'd like to see the picture of Dan's guitar. I faintly remember seeing a picture of one Bobbe had for sale at one time, and the only other one I have ever seen is on this test post, here on the forum. http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum19/HTML/001313.html

I still need to get by and visit you guys and get a couple of knee levers changed around on a Pro II. It's an original model, and not a "The Pro II". I need my two right knee levers reversed. I could possibly do it, but I'd much rather have it done by the pro's!

By the way, I really enjoyed your steel playing with Jeff Bates on the Opry a few weeks back. That Sho~Bud you played was GORGEOUS!!!

Thanks again,
Lem

Duane Marrs · Post by **Duane Marrs** » 25 Feb 2005 3:36 am

Lem, You're welcome. I'm one of the lucky ones I got to spend time at Sho-Bud. I used to have to lug my '69 permanent up the iron stairs to Harry, as a teenager in the seventies to have it worked on at the Broadway shop. Plus, ten years with Duane I've tried to find out as much as I could about the history. People like Lloyd, Bobbe and Donna Jackson have been generous in answering a lot of questions.Jeff

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 25 Feb 2005 8:39 am

OK guys, I still have a "Super Pro II", number one of the series of seven. It is totally different than any other Sho-Bud built, even to the factory fretboards that glow in the dark, but they look standard in normal light.
These guitars have a small roller wheel on the tip of the finger string cam. This eliminates wear and cuts down on friction in a high stress area.
The wood in these guitars is highly figured, hand picked birds eye maple, Jimmy Day's was blue with aluminum necks (the only one with aluminum necks). Mine is Tobacco color, D. Jernigans is all black. I'm not sure of Dan Dugmore's.
I know that at least two of them went to Japanese collectors for near the ten thousand dollar amount a few years ago.
I have offered Doug Jernigan a large amount for his but he's not interested in selling at the moment.
Jernigan's is the only one that does not have the "Finned" end castings, he didn't want that look even though everyone else seems to love the unique look of these end plates.
These guitars are a different size than any other Sho-Bud,half way between the Super Pro and a Pro II, different thickness wood, and both necks have the same thickness body wood under the necks, unlike the regular Sho-Bud Super Pro that has thinner wood under the C6th neck.
One of the most confusing things Sho-Bud did to this guitar was to name it "Super Pro II". It's not a Super Pro, and it's not a Pro II, nor is it even similar to them. The name has caused total confusion for a long time.
These are very nice guitars and it's a shame that Fred Grestch chose to discontinue this model, but as he told me on a recent phone conversation: "We were making so many good selling models that it wasn't feasible to build a Rolls Royce to compete with the Super Pro, Pro II, Pro III, the Pro I and the student, Maverick".

I'll post pictures of this guitar here next week, however, the picture on my "Soulful Steel CD" is me playing with Johnny Paycheck and playing my Super Pro II. I have also used it in a couple of my teaching videos.

Now, here is the kicker, Sho-Bud made some steel guitars and put the "Super-Pro II" decal on the front that were NOT Super Pro II guitars. So don't be confused if you see one of these guitars and someone tries to sell it to you as an original one of seven. The serial numbers were in consecutive order with the regular production guitars. The big value guitars have to be one of the original seven.
The best way to quickly identify these guitars is to look for the "Finned" end castings, fingers with little brass rollers in the bottom end, original pickups that have "Sho-Bud" written on top of them and the fretboards that glow in the dark. There are many other differences, but these are easy to spot quickly.
The entire bridge mechanisum is different from all other Sho-Buds also. A single pivot shaft (like Emmons) without the braces between the fingers.
These guitars are by far the most valuable and sought after of all Sho-Bud guitars. Possibly as valuable as any steel guitars anywhere, and yes, I do hear that Jimmy Day's Super Prois now for sale, somewhere in Texas, price is rumored to be very fair,

bobbe seymour

Pictures at 10:00 [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 25 February 2005 at 08:45 AM.]

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 25 Feb 2005 1:43 pm

Wow,
Thanks for the reply, Bobbe! I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures of your Super Pro II as well.

Lem

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 25 Feb 2005 3:43 pm

I was in St. Louis the year Sho-Bud introduced the Super Pro II. Went staright home and ordered one. Obviously, I never got it! Bobbe, I'll give you a dollar two ninty eight for yours. Might even throw in my camoflage pac-a seat.

Tony Farr · Post by **Tony Farr** » 26 Feb 2005 7:09 am

I have a SHO~BUD PRO II, which I got straight from the factory in DeQueen,Ark back in 1983, April. I went there and spent to day with them while they set everything up for me, Yasur (spelling), left to go back to Japan the following week, so min SHO~BUD was one of the last ones they made.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 26 Feb 2005 9:16 am

Tony, how wrong you are, there were thousands of Sho-Buds made after yours, and you don't have a Super Pro II, You have a Pro II..
Totally different guitar,

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 26 Feb 2005 11:13 am

Lem,
I'd like to see you get Jimmy Day's old Super Pro. I know it would be in good hands. Nick[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 26 February 2005 at 11:14 AM.]

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 26 Feb 2005 12:37 pm

Nick,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but...
I don't think I'd qualify to carry Jimmy's steel CASE, let alone own/play a former guitar of his!!!

On the other hand, it would really be something to TRY to play something on a guitar with that kind of history!

Lem

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 27 Feb 2005 11:42 am

But then, on the other hand, he wore a glove.

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 27 Feb 2005 12:40 pm

Bobbe my friend,
You are TOO funny!!

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 28 Feb 2005 3:47 pm

Sho-Bud Super Pro II pictures will be here tomorrow, these guitars are beautiful.
Story at ten.
Eleven eastern, [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 28 February 2005 at 03:48 PM.]

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 28 Feb 2005 7:39 pm

Cool Bobbe,
I'll be looking forward to seeing them. Sounds like the Super Pro II must be one of the rarest models of any steel in existance!

Lem

Delbert Aldredge · Post by **Delbert Aldredge** » 1 Mar 2005 8:55 pm

Bobby Seymour, are there difference in the undercarriage between the Super Pro and SP II ? If so what?

Also didn't Baldwin Music buy out Sho Bud @ 1983 or 1984? Is the SP II a "Baldwin" built guitar?

Thanks,
ps. I enjoy your web page and news letter.

Delbert[This message was edited by Delbert Aldredge on 02 March 2005 at 12:29 AM.][This message was edited by Delbert Aldredge on 02 March 2005 at 12:31 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 2 Mar 2005 7:19 am

The "Super-Pro II" was totally different underneath, all parts were milled from aluminum stock, rather large and strong, the knee levers were aluminum channel. Still used the hex shaft though.
One interesting difference in these guitars was the 1/4" step between the necks, this guitar also had the step under the guitar and not just on top like the standard Super Pro did. And not a 3/4" step like the Pro II has.
The regular Super Pro has a "Flat bottom" (like Paris Hilton) and the Super Pro II has the step so the thickness of the wood is the same under both necks. Many other differences also, these are just some obvious ones.
bobbe

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 2 Mar 2005 7:43 am

Delbert, yes Baldwin did buy Sho-Bud "on paper", but the guitars were still built by David Jackson in Nashville and distributed to dealers from Chanute, KS. The Baldwin offices were in Cincinnati, OH. When Fred Grestch bought the Sho-Bud Manufacturing Co. from David Jackson in Dec. of '84, he moved it to Ridgeland, SC. He did not buy the part of Sho-Bud that Shot Jackson had on Broadway in Nashville, however Shot did move his 416 Broadway operation to a very large shop building at his home.
The Baldwin Corp. did have the company at the time the Super Pro II was conceived by Gene Haugh. However, when Fred G. bought the Co. from Baldwin, the decision was made to discontinue the "Rolls Royce" of Sho-Buds due to cost restraints and because there were so many different models already in the Sho-Bud line and because the Super Pro II had no parts in common with the other Sho-Bud steels.
Fred Grestch also bought the EMCI company not too long after so he could have the two best guitars on the market (at the time). Unfortunately, he let us all down by not continuing to manufacture either of these great brands, which he still owns today.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 3 Mar 2005 10:37 am

These are the long awaited Sho-Bud Super-Pro II pictures I promised last week. This is number one of the "seven" true original SP-II steels.
This is the one that was used in the "Rhinestone" movie featuring Sylvester Stallone, Dolly Partin, bad movie, great and rare steel guitar.
bobbe

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 03 March 2005 at 11:02 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 3 Mar 2005 10:57 am

The Elizibeth West guitar pictured in a previous post is not one of the seven original "roller cam" guitars. It is a later Super Pro with a Super-Pro II decal on it.
Sho-Bud built several steels using this wrong decal. Trying to use up parts before the end of production, most likely.

I remember getting several regular Super Pro steels for stock in the late eighties with this decal. I don't think the factory assemblers knew the difference at that late date.
The mechanisum and end castings are the best ways to tell the true SP-II. [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 03 March 2005 at 10:58 AM.][This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 03 March 2005 at 11:04 AM.]

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 3 Mar 2005 12:04 pm

Wow Bobbe!
That shore am purty!!!

Lem

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 3 Mar 2005 2:42 pm

now that's education !
Thanx Bobbe