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Topic: A-pedal... just a Touch is Too Much? |
Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2016 8:33 pm |
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Having a challenge with my Carter SD10, when pedalling only 'B' but any contact with the A-pedal causes trouble.
Raising the B pedal helped, but did not completely resolve this problem.
The Carter doesn't have pedal return springs, such as those on my ShoBud 6139. And I'm used to the Bud's large "waffle" style pedals and their spacing. So this might be all on me. But is there some adjustment or mechanical remedy I should consider? |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 4:55 am
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| I normally set my pedals so that they are the same height when depressed which actually may cause the 'A' pedal to be a bit higher when at rest. You might try shifting your foot slightly to the right and also make note of how much of your foot is covering the pedals, (especially if you play in flat sole shoes such as sneakers or loafers). Having too much of your foot covering the pedals may make rocking off of the 'A' pedal a bit more tricky. |
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Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 7:42 am play in pedals
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I've found it's good to have a slight amount of play in the pedals, before they start pulling the strings. But I'm not sure if that's possible if there are no return springs on the pedals?
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 7:58 am
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Indeed, Eric. In the absence of pedal return springs, the pedal will rest on the point of the start of resistance.
The guitars known for their smooth play often have no pedal return spring.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 8:13 am
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It can be a combination of things that are giving you trouble. Most people do lower the B pedal slightly and some don't. It can also be your shoes. I played in the same old boots for years and everything was fine until I got new pair last year. I could not play my guitar not matter how I adjusted the pedals because the boot was just to stiff so I started playing in some hush puppy type shoes and everything was fine.
You do want a slight amount of play in the pull train so as not to pull a string if you just barely touch the pedal or knee lever. Most steels have a pedal set screw to adjust the slack when the pedal is at rest. Be careful to not adjust it where there's no slack or you will begin a process of constantly over adjusting the hex nut tuners trying to keep the guitar in tune.
_________________
Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 8:19 am
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| Something that might help is to insure that both pulls on the A pedal commence at exactly the same time- aka "timing". That commonly results in a bit more pressure at the outset to enable you to feel the pedal better. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 8:49 am
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The early Sho~Buds had the corner of the A pedal cut off at a 45 degree to keep from hanging up on it when just using the B pedal.
I had a Williams that I did the same thing to, it helps a lot.  |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 8:52 am
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You can put a pedal-return spring (or something that has the same effect, to maintain some slack) just about anywhere in the pulling train, it doesn't have to be at the rod end on the apron or stop bar, as it is in many guitars. Just hook a small spring to pull the finger (or bellcrank) away from the changer. Keep the spring fairly light, or the tension will add a lot to the effort of actuating the pedal. Also, keep in mind that a longer spring usually works better than a shorter one.  |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 1:50 pm Pedal interference
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| I was going to put a chamfer like radius on my first guitar, because of that problem. Then my Steel Guitar buddy changed my guitar to the "Day" way & that problem went away. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 5:23 pm
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| Never played a Carter PSG. Do they have "helper" springs on the pull changer fingers. I've had them on Zum and ShoBud Custom Pro II guitars but always remove them from pedal as A & B changes. I just don't like uber-light pedal action for the very reason you describe. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 6:01 pm
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I have a similar situation on a recent acquisition. My plan, when time allows, is to pull out the factory rodding chart and re-configure everything to that. Then tweak to suit. I figure the builder knows best how the mechanics work, so that seems like a good place to start.
Many times, previous owners customize and re-arrange things modifying, sometimes greatly, the mfg. factory set-up.
I'm sure Carter has pedal, crank timing and a rodding chart @ www.steelguitar.com So that might be worth looking at first before anything else. That will have info on setting pedal slack etc. as well. JMO. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 6:19 pm
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I've had 4 Carter steels. The thing I love about them is how "positive" the pedal action is. You touch a pedal, the pitch changes. This is also why I don't play them anymore. I think they are great guitars, I just prefer more "slop" in the system. The best way to avoid the problem is to simply practice the correct ankle bend and foot turn to eliminate it. I also found that tennis shoes made it harder. I play in moccasins or narrow dress shoes (live). Footwear is no big deal to a lot of players, though.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2016 11:01 pm
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I had an A pedal that rested slightly higher than the B. It wasn't much but it drove me nuts. When I took the guitar for some light maintenance and professional repair, I asked the good folks who did the work for me, to please, please set up the A pedal so that it did not ride any higher than the B pedal when it was at rest. Now I am peace with my guitar again and life is good ... I can't stand having an A pedal higher than the others. As the furthest pedal to reach, then having to reach even more because it was high, just didn't seem to be right somehow, from a very fundamental point of view. And having the A pedal slightly higher than B got in the way when playing only B because I would have to tilt my foot back towards my body at an unnatural angle to reach B pedal only, without disturbing A.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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J.C. Norris
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2016 1:58 am
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| I've had Sho-Buds up till 5 or so years ago. I did the same thing Erv did, I cut the corners off the inside of both A & B pedals.I now play a 1967 Emmons PP and bought 2 pedals from Billy Knowles and did them the same way. Of course kept the good ones in case I ever want to sell it. This takes care of that for me. Hope it works for you. J.C. Norris |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 18 Nov 2016 5:17 am
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| I think the most logical thing to do is adjust your seating position and the position of the your left foot, relative to the pedals. Modifying the guitar to compensate for bad habits don't make much sense to me. Just my opinion, I'm sure that the longer play this guitar, the more comfortable it will be to you. |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2016 7:27 pm
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| Many times, previous owners customize and re-arrange things modifying, sometimes greatly, the mfg. factory set-up. |
Jerry, no doubt that is often the case.
I was told that Al Briscoe recently went through this guitar, put a new BL/XR16 in it, and set it up. I keep hearing Dirty Harry's advice in my head... "a man's got to know his limitations."
You are spot on about the wealth of info on that web site, www.steelguitar.com. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 19 Nov 2016 7:42 pm
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| I see. If Brisco adjusted it, he would know better than anyone about Carters and pedal steels in general. Might be just the nature of the beast. I haven't done mine yet, but I spent some time examining things yesterday and I believe my situation is going to end up like yours. From what I see so far, it's going to come down to adjusting the pedals relative to each other to solve this for me. |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2016 8:13 pm
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Thanks to all of ya' for the thoughtful comments.
The Carter has no raise-helpers, and it doesn't need them. Pull timing is in sync.
This guitar has little if any slack in the pull train. Even slight pedal pressure bears on the changer. Return springs would change that, and seem worth considering. If you have tried this I would appreciate hearing from you. But I'm looking at the other fish in this kettle first.
As several of you pointed out, footwear, relative pedal height, and my own posture all play a role.
I'm just noticing how much "shoe" there is forward of my own toes. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 19 Nov 2016 9:35 pm
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| Dick Wood wrote: |
It can also be your shoes. I played in the same old boots for years and everything was fine until I got new pair last year. I could not play my guitar not matter how I adjusted the pedals because the boot was just to stiff so I started playing in some hush puppy type shoes and everything was fine.
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This is why I play in soft soiled moccasins.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 4:46 am
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Mike, clean moccasins won't work?  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2016 7:16 am
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I got it, I got it!  |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 6:27 pm Rubber Soul Sandals
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Dick Wood wrote: |
It can also be your shoes. I played in the same old boots for years and everything was fine until I got new pair last year. I could not play my guitar not matter how I adjusted the pedals because the boot was just to stiff so I started playing in some hush puppy type shoes and everything was fine.
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This is why I play in soft soiled moccasins. |
Now we're getting somewhere! Dick's shoe-switch and Mike's results with soft soiled moccasins inspired me to try my rubber soul sandals. They follow the outline of my foot exactly. No extra "stuff" on the sides or in front of my toes. Stiff enough to provide a good tactile link with the pedals.
These won't score points as classy shoes, but I'm way past caring about the fashion police. So far this seems promising. I will probably connect a small return spring somewhere in the A-pull. But otherwise I think these inexpensive sandals get the job of pressing pedals. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 7:48 pm
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The only thing I'd do in Rubber Soul Sandals is Drive My Car. I certainly wouldn't Run For My Life. You can Wait, but You Won't See Me.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2016 9:16 pm
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| Beep beep'm beep beep yeah! |
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