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Topic: New to steel guitar |
David Holcomb
From:
Utah, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 3:23 pm |
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| I just bought an MSA s12 classic serial number 1C3993 and I am completely lost. It is 5+ 4 and I'm not sure about the A,B, and C pedals. I know ther are 2 different set ups for pedals but I'm not sure which one I have. HELP! |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 3:54 pm
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Tell us what you know.
Start with some pictures (several) and we'll be glad to help friend.
Jb
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
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Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 4:54 pm
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Press each pedal & look at the changer end to see which strings move. Write it down & tell us. 
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
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David Holcomb
From:
Utah, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 6:10 pm New to steel guitar
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ok here goes;
pedal 1 lowers 5 and 9
pedal 2 lowers 3 and 6
pedal 3 raises 4 and 5
pedal 4 raises 6 and 7
pedal 5 raises 6 and 7 at a different pitch than pedal 4 |
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David Holcomb
From:
Utah, USA
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 7:56 pm
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_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
.................................. |
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Derrick Unger
From:
Newark Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 8:29 pm pedals
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WOW that is strange..pedal 3 is the only standard Emmons pedal, raising 4 and 5...pedals 1 and 2 are things normally done with levers, like taking g#s to g's..what are your levers doing?
_________________
Music is good for the soul..playing it is even better! Gretsch6strLapSteel*PeaveyNashville400*HudsonSD-10*DigitechRP360*FenderChampion100*PeaveyKB300*Goodrich120*Behringerx1204*BehringerMini4*Mullen S10"Discovery"*Peavey Vegas400*Princeton112plus*SuperChampX2*SidekickReverb65*Rumble100*MarshallMG50DFX*Nashville112 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 8:31 pm
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Pedal 1 should be raising 5 and 10.
And pedals 4 and 5 are odd.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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David Holcomb
From:
Utah, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 8:38 pm New to steel guitar
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LKL drops 8
LKR raises 8
RKL raises 6
RKR raises 4 |
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David Holcomb
From:
Utah, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 8:48 pm New to steel guitar
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| I'm hoping you will tell me I can change the pedals? |
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2016 8:59 pm
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That appears to be a pedal steel I saw for sale either on Craigslist or Ebay. I envy you for getting it! Anyway, not having seen the unit, a hypothesis: It may be from someone who (experimenting?) set it up in his own way.
You might want to see what the string notes are: A standard E9 setup is (Smallest to largest string)
F# D# G# E B G# F# E D B for a 10 string. For C6 it would be
G E C A G E C A F C for the 10 string. I can see that yours is a 12 string, but I am not sure what the last 2 strings would be.
You can change the pedal and knee levers to fit E9 or C6. |
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David Holcomb
From:
Utah, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 3:55 am New to steel guitar
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| I did buy it on eBay. I put it together according ton the manual( the original by the way ) and noticed some of the workings were lose and sloppy. I used to help a steel player in a band put his together and it was pretty easy to get together but that was when everything else seemed to sound wrong. I tuned it according to the manual but I knew the pedals had to be wrong. |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 4:31 am
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Yeah, You've got a very "Non-Standard" setup going on there, which will make learning it very difficult.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you should at first just disconnect the long pedal rods (running down to the pedals) for pedals 4 & 5 and set them aside for the time being, and let someone help you put pedals A, B & C back to Emmons standard.
It can relatively easily be done on an MSA but you have to really know what you're doing or you'll open a big-ass can of worms.
Are there any PSG techs in your area?
Jb
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
.................................. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 9:41 am
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And p2 should be raising 3 and 6.
Fortunately, MSA are easy to work on, as long as each rod has the right number of bellcranks.
I normally tell newbies to learn on what they have. Yours is an exception.
I'd start a thread looking for help in your area of Utah.
If nobody answers, we can try to guide you through it. You'll need 5/64" and 7/64" Allen wrenches and an afternoon of swearing.
I'd recommend putting the standard A, B and C pedals as 2, 3 and 4, allowing you to add a pedal on either side of the standard 3.
But don't bother hooking up the pedal rods to 1 and 5 for a while. This is a daunting instrument to start on, and Lloyd and Buddy only used 3.
I have my own ideas for what to put on a "Zero pedal," but that can and should wait.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 10:07 am
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If anyone can talk you thru refitting the guitar, Lane can.
My advice, since you're so new, omit the zero pedal altogether, get a b and c pedals and both left e-levers going first. That'll keep you busy and playing for 2 years easily
Jb
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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GFI S10 Ultra, Telecaster, a Hound Dog, and an Annoyed Wife
.................................. |
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David Holcomb
From:
Utah, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 10:22 am New to steel guitar
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| Thanks guys I'll start that thread to see if I can find someone local. If not I'll get back to you Lane. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 10:58 am
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You bought a wonderful steel, but it's not set up right for you.
You need to take it to an experienced steel technician, and have him remove 2 pedals, and set it up with the standard 3 pedal, 4 knee lever copedant that all the instruction material uses.
The extra pedals are not standard, and we disagree among ourselves how best to use them. Leave them off for now, and put them back on after you have some knowledge and experience, and a better idea of what you want to do with them.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 12:07 pm
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For that matter, removing unused pedals on the MSA just means loosening a set screw and driving out the axle of each surplus pedal (put the axle back into the pedal and tighten it down, so you don't lose it, and don't bother removing undercarriage parts.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Derrick Unger
From:
Newark Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 12:09 pm Msa Sd12
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I just got a MSA SD12 myself this week and I am making changes on mine as well..already made 2 changes..it is very easy..I know that I am glad I took a picture of the changer end so I have a reference point as to what holes the rods were in..not that this will help that fellow.
He is going to have a major re-rodding project on his hands..hey fellows, could I be of assistance to this guy by telling him what some of my standard stuff is on mine..what holes on bellcranks and what holes on changer???
_________________
Music is good for the soul..playing it is even better! Gretsch6strLapSteel*PeaveyNashville400*HudsonSD-10*DigitechRP360*FenderChampion100*PeaveyKB300*Goodrich120*Behringerx1204*BehringerMini4*Mullen S10"Discovery"*Peavey Vegas400*Princeton112plus*SuperChampX2*SidekickReverb65*Rumble100*MarshallMG50DFX*Nashville112 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 12:13 pm
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Couldn't hurt. Mitchell or Kyle might have the old rodding charts.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Derrick Unger
From:
Newark Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 1:03 pm copedents
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hey Lane..I agree with you on omitting pedals 1&5..leave those for later..use his pedals 2,3,4 for the standard Emmons A,B,C..So his pedal 2 will become the A pedal (raising strings 5&10 from B's to c#'s)This sounds easy but he has to have 2 bellcranks on his pedal 2..he needs pullrods possibly robbed from somewhere..bellcrank barrels..all may be on guitar but a little confussing when looking at what can go where!!! I sent him my number..might be able to give him the groundwork of what he is facing.
_________________
Music is good for the soul..playing it is even better! Gretsch6strLapSteel*PeaveyNashville400*HudsonSD-10*DigitechRP360*FenderChampion100*PeaveyKB300*Goodrich120*Behringerx1204*BehringerMini4*Mullen S10"Discovery"*Peavey Vegas400*Princeton112plus*SuperChampX2*SidekickReverb65*Rumble100*MarshallMG50DFX*Nashville112 |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 1:04 pm
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David, it;s true that you guitar is relatively easy to work on, but given that you have no knowledge or experience, you could set it up incorrectly. Better to have somebody like Lane or Johnny Cox or Mickey Adams or Jim Palenscar set it up for you.
An incorrectly set up steel can fight you, and hinder your playing. You have much to learn. You want your steel to be your friend, not your enemy.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 1:17 pm
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If you have FB messenger, I can help with video chat.
Mike is absolutely correct about the frustration that attends trying to play a wonky steel.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Derrick Unger
From:
Newark Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 2:01 pm
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A few other things after I thought about it is he is probably real short on pullrods since his levers aren't pulling everything...pullrods,nylon nuts,and aluminum spacers..just sayin"
_________________
Music is good for the soul..playing it is even better! Gretsch6strLapSteel*PeaveyNashville400*HudsonSD-10*DigitechRP360*FenderChampion100*PeaveyKB300*Goodrich120*Behringerx1204*BehringerMini4*Mullen S10"Discovery"*Peavey Vegas400*Princeton112plus*SuperChampX2*SidekickReverb65*Rumble100*MarshallMG50DFX*Nashville112 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Nov 2016 2:05 pm
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He said each of his pedals has two pulls. While I'd put 3 on the A pedal of a 12 string and also the F lever, I think he has all he needs, just in the wrong places.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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