Lowest hum pickup that sounds good?

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 6 Feb 2005 2:33 pm

I have been doing more and more sessions lately direct into Pro Tools set ups and I have noticed that when I use single coil pickups, the hum is noticable in some situations. On one of my Zum D-10's, I have an E66 on the C6th and a Truetone on the E9th. The E66 never hums but it's a bit flat sounding for my taste. The Truetone does hum when compared to the E66, not enough to matter on stage, but slightly too much for these direct recordings.

So, I am thinking of turning one of my Zums into a humbucker outfitted, direct recording steel.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a humbucker type pickup that sounds great?

Many thanks!

TC

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 6 Feb 2005 2:53 pm

Hey TC--

Always good to cya around here

. I really like the BL 710's on my Fessenden's, and record direct with them a lotm My direct rig is an Evans preamp into a Vintech X73, then I give them a line level signal that works great. I am going to try a set of Jim Pittman's humbuckers on my P/P when it gets back from being restored...

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 6 Feb 2005 2:55 pm

The only humbucker that I've ever heard that dosen't sound like well, you know what, is the Lawrence 705. Of course they don't make them anymore, don't ask me why. They really sound incredible. I've tried several George l's and a couple of the other Lawrence models and they all sounded terrible compared with any single coil ( especially Truetones).

Stephen Dorocke · Post by **Stephen Dorocke** » 6 Feb 2005 3:55 pm

Ed Fulawka uses humbuckers on his guitars. I love the way they sound through tube amps. Going direct, I usually try to run it through some king of pre-amp, which would ideally have a tube. I find it sounds fairly good put as good as when it's going through a couple of Tung-Sol 5881's. Feel free to contact me. Also, Eddie will wind you one to your specs. sd

Stephen Dorocke · Post by **Stephen Dorocke** » 6 Feb 2005 3:59 pm

Excuse the typos...it sounds better through some KIND of pre-amp, ideally with a tube. But not as good as going through a couple of T-S 5881's.

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 6 Feb 2005 4:39 pm

I have used the Emmons humbuckers on my LeGrand for the last 12 years. Absolutely quiet, even with full volume. Great sound. On my old Sho-Bud I used the Lawrence 705's also very quiet.

Thanx,
Jim

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 6 Feb 2005 4:47 pm

10-4 on the 705s. I got 'em on my MCI. It's as quiet as a church mouse and one of the best sounding guitars I know if. I've only hear a few guitars with 705s, but every one of them is noiseless and sounds fantastic to my ears.

I think Bill should consider reissuing those pups.

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MCI D10 8+5, ZB 11/10 8+3 Early 30s Dobro, Harmony Lap Steel, ad infinitum

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Feb 2005 6:36 pm

I use a Lawrence 712 and a George L's 12-1. The main difference I hear between the 712 and a TrueTone is the hum. I A/B'ed them in my Sierra which allows quick pickup changes. The TrueTone has a little more "air" in the sound, but the difference is really subtle. The 712 is dead quiet. I'm not willing to listen to hum just to get a wee bit more on the very high end of the spectrum, so I stick with the 712.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 6 Feb 2005 8:04 pm

TC, I have a BL910 on E9th and BL710 on C6th on my Zum - and they are very quiet. I use the guitar in the studio quite a lot and it is the perfect option for me, direct or otherwise.

jerry wallace · Post by **jerry wallace** » 6 Feb 2005 11:18 pm

TC, I feel the "Ideal" way to cope with the positives and negatives of single coil and humbucking pickups is one of two things:

1.Have two PSG's fitted with each type.

2.Have a slide in system like Sierra or MSA for a instant switch.

In my opinion there will always be situations where one type or the other will be preferable.

Most all situations will vary with effects , amps, volume pedal, locations, different steels, live on stage, studio , personal taste etc..

Some players feel the sound/tone is best with a single coil while others a humbucker.
While still other players dont hear much difference at all other than a bit more noise/hum from a single coil.
There is no question that single coil pickups are more prone to noise..The question is how much noise and which is the most desirable for you and your situation.

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Jerry Wallace/TrueTone pickups-2001 Zum: D-10,8+6, "98 Zum: D-10,8+8,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 7 Feb 2005 5:29 am

Thanks everyone for sharing!

Jerry, I couldn't agree more. The Truetone I got from you sounds great and it's only in these Pro Tools recording situations that I need something a bit quieter. By the way, in a real, properly designed recording studio, the Truetone seems to be quiet enough. I know that you go to great lengths to make your pickups quiet. Is there more that I can do? Also, have you considered making a humbucker?

TC

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 7 Feb 2005 5:43 am

I've tried most of the popular pickups on my Sierra and my Excel and I keep coming back to the TT. If I HAD to use a humbucker it would be a BL 712 like Bobby says - except to my ear,the difference between it and a TT is not so much the air on the high end - but the air on the low end. To me the TT has more clear twang on the low strings which is difficult to get with a humbucker without the high strings sounding shrill. The 712 comes the closest however.I get a little hum way out at the top of my volume pedal but I've learned to just turn up my amp and pick softer with the volume pedal back at about halfway down and work the pedal from there only occasionally flooring it.This works best w/an active pedal,BTW. In the 3 years I've had the TT in my Excel,I've only played 2 venues out of around 300 where the hum was unbearable. I would have killed for a swappable pickup feature like on a Sierra - which is such a great idea it sould be standard on all steels. You listening Mitsuo? -MJ-

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 7 Feb 2005 5:48 am

TC, when you are in one of those hum situations,have you tried rotating your guitar position? There must be an electrical AC source nearby to induce the hum in the pickup. Changing the physical relationship between the pickup and the AC source should vary the amount of hum.
If moving the guitar doesn't change the hum, I would suspect a ground loop. You could eliminate ground loops by using three prong adapters (without connecting the ground wire).
As far as tone goes, I have never played a guitar that I could not get a pleasing tone with. Yeah, different tones,but I figure out how to deal with it (EQ and hands).
If your have your mind locked in to a certain tone you must achieve, you will spend the rest of your life working on tones, when you could be spending that time working on ability.............JD

jerry wallace · Post by **jerry wallace** » 7 Feb 2005 11:07 am

TC, No I have not considered building a humbucker..I have used just about all of the PSG humbuckers on the market.
They are all very well made and "state of the art" in design.
I cannot improve on whats available.My goal is to offer a single coil with the mininum noise/hum possible as a alternative.

I am currently working on a LC noise filter device..This is a simple passive notch filter that hopefully will help reduce 60hz noise..My concept is to NOT build it into the pickup but have it as a small device that could be pluged in line if a location or situation needed a reduction in noise/hum.

The problem with this concept is simuliar to the humbucker concept..When you filter out noise/hum, how much "good" frequency response ae you going to loose also?.In other words do the positives out weigh the negatives..There will be some losses in sound/tone..But for players who only have one steel or no slide in pickup, it could possibly be something that could help and at least make a noise problem tolerable.

This is not a completed device, but I am doing some R&D with it.

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Jerry Wallace/TrueTone pickups-2001 Zum: D-10,8+6, "98 Zum: D-10,8+8,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com

[This message was edited by jerry wallace on 07 February 2005 at 12:11 PM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 7 Feb 2005 11:38 am

I'm with MJ (as usual)
I've used my TrueTone in everything from large theatre venues to small honky tonks with neon beer signs and I have yet to find a venue where any noise is not acceptable and the difference in tone between the TT and any of the humbuckers I've tried IS noticeable. I've also recorded in a bunch of studios with everything from ProTools to an old 8 track tape machine and have never had a complaint.

My new CD was recorded using two guitars with single coils and I've never had a problem with noise at all. It was all recorded direct. Check out the samples: http://www.larrybell.org/id9.htm

If you're recording direct on the ProTools setup in the control room, you're probably getting interference from the magnetic field in the monitor. Give yourself more room between you and the computer monitor and the noise will become minimal.

Your mileage may vary, but that's been my experience.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 7 Feb 2005 11:54 am

My experience with TrueTones mirrors Larry's exactly- until this last weekend when I played a club where I got very loud hum, no matter where I moved my steel or gear- so loud it was almost a pure tone, (right below F#, which I know is where Jerry has his pickups "tuned") I managed to get through the night, but it did bug me. I guess next time I play there it'll be the Emmons with the Humbuckers- I hope I never run into that situation again as I LOVE the sound of the TTs. Having that RC filter along for such an event would be a lifesaver, Jerry. Hope it works out!

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Les Pierce · Post by **Les Pierce** » 7 Feb 2005 2:19 pm

Be VERY careful when floating your ground, as John suggested, or you may become the ground when touching a mic, or another instrument.

Les

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Strat,Tele
Dekley S-10

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 7 Feb 2005 5:55 pm

John, I have tried rotating the guitar. It doesn't help much. Also most of the monitors being used are LCD which are very low magnetic emission. As far as ground loops go, I am fairly certain that a loop is not the culprit since the hum is only present when the volume pedal is down pointing at an EMI (electro magnetic interference)field getting into the pickup. Also the humbucker was quiet. It is also possible that in these situations, a good ground is not available in the recording system. This would prevent a good path for the unwanted interference to be "drained" from the pickups shielding.

I have heard about additional shielding being added to single coil pickups for recordings. I think it was Steve Fischell who once told me that someone did this to his steel pickups before he recorded Emmylou's live album. I know that electric guitar players do this. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks!
TC

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 7 Feb 2005 6:14 pm

I put copper foil around the coils of my TT and lined the pickup cavity as well and shunted all the foil to ground.It helps maybe 10% or 20% and was worth doing I suppose even tho it was a hassle - but hey every little bit helps. I too,would be extremely interested in having Jerry's new gadget in my pac-a-seat for those high RF environments. -MJ-

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 7 Feb 2005 6:50 pm

Me too!

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 8 Feb 2005 10:06 am

It's a neverending conundrum... years ago I was playing the top-40 rock circuit in the Carolinas, using a wonderful Custom Strat I had built. It sounded fantastic in every venue we played, but one place had a massive dimmer rack next to my side of the stage. The hum was so bad from those single coils the guitar was unuseable there, and since we played there often, I followed some tech's advice and replaced the SCs with a set of EMG's. The guitar became playable in that venue, but sounded, umm, "less good" everywhere else. Sigh.