Still breaking 3rds...HELP!!

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 27 Jan 2005 7:55 am

more crazy stuff: how about the pickups?mabe causing a breakage!!! how about the stops in your guitar?are they solid? mabe pulling a little too far when you stomp them? how are the pullers machined?is it a true radius?? now,what kind of shoes are you wearing?? farris

Rhino · Post by **Rhino** » 27 Jan 2005 9:41 am

Hi Bob…

I am assuming that your new roller nut assembly is gauged, if so I may have some advice.

On my older Emmons the rollers were not gauged so when stringing up the guitar I would start at the end of the tuning peg and wrap the strings towards the key head, all worked great. When I took possession of my new Emmons with the gauged rollers, I noticed that the factory wound the strings from the key head towards the end of the tuning peg?? Since I had never strung up a guitar that way I proceeded to wrap a new set of strings my way.
Well … After I prematurely broke four .010’s -- I realized that the grove cut into the roller had sharp inner edges and putting a little bend on the string while wrapping it towards the key head would cause the string to rub against the sharp inner edge of the roller and eventually cut it. I started wrapping the string from the key head towards the very end of the tuning peg, which put the string more in line with the roller, and haven’t prematurely broken another string.

From the southeast side of Washington State.

Rob….

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 27 Jan 2005 9:47 am

My Emmons PP would last about 6 hours on a 3rd. After I went to Jaquar's and started putting a drop of oil on the bridge, end of problem. I have not broken a 3rd in 6 months and I play from 30 minutes to 1 hour every day. I am going to put a new set of strings on now and will be taking the old 3rd off. I will never know how much longer it would have lasted. It is an .011 gauge. Maybe I just got a "goodun".

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 27 Jan 2005 7:11 pm

Rhino.. that would cause breakage at the nut/tuning head side of the guitar.. Mine breaks at the Changer every time.. I'm going to try some different strings I guess.... bob

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 27 Jan 2005 7:35 pm

I keep seeing the reference to oil on the strings and changer finger, the only thing this will accomplish is to dampen sustain. There are many factors that contribute to string breakage, but lack of lubrication on a string is NOT one of them. If you think you have to oil your strings to keep them from breaking, your problem is much deeper than that. This is just my opinion and personal experience, but I have found it to be fact. YMMV.

BTW I use a.012 for my high G# and they will break in approx. 12-15 hrs. playing time, it's the nature of the beast.

Bob [This message was edited by Bob Knight on 27 January 2005 at 07:40 PM.]

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 27 Jan 2005 7:45 pm

Bob, the reason a string breaks before being worn out is being pulled too tight or a bad string or perhaps a burr which I believe is somewhat over-emphasized. An Ab to A pull on a 3rd string on a 24 1/4" scale is really stretching it to the max. If the string is breaking at the changer I would first make certain the tuner is correctly calibrated. Then watch the tuner carefully to see it the string is pulling sharp of the A note and then settling back to A. I believe it is possible for the lowering spring to be slightly slack to the point of balancing the raise and lower when you raise the string the lowering finger can pull away slightly allowing the string to raise but the slight lowering action can cause you to overtune the raise and the lowering finger settles back to the stop and allows the string to go sharp and break. This is a theory I have but I believe it is possible. Worth a look. A little more tension on the lowering spring would correct this.
Jerry

Fred Amendola · Post by **Fred Amendola** » 1 Feb 2005 7:27 am

Bob,
You might try SIT .011's.
You can get bulk at Musician's Friend.
I have a push pull and a Carter, and the .011 has very good life.
Fred

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 1 Feb 2005 7:32 am

Thanks Fred.. I think thats what I'll do.

Jennings Ward · Post by **Jennings Ward** » 1 Feb 2005 7:08 pm

GRAVITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------
EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 1 Feb 2005 7:56 pm

There was an article in Guitar Player Magazine some years ago regarding the "tolerance" in manufacturing of guitar strings. I use to read all the articles as they were informative as well as entertaining.

The jist of the article stated that a plain string could be as much as .002 +- and a wound string could be as much a .004 +-

Hopefully, the tolerance factor has been tightened up, at least for steel guitar strings.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 2 Feb 2005 12:44 am

FWIW:

I used to break 1-2 Ernie Ball .010's and .011's every night. They would uniformly break at the "changer" end.

Back in the 70's, when I started working at Sierra Steel Guitars, I began using their factory stock .012's. I noticed that these strings usually lasted 3-4 gigs.

After close inspection, I noticed that Ernie Ball's lighter gauge strings (10's-12's) had only five loose twists or wraps fastening the ball end to the string.

The bulk Sierra strings, on the other hand,(Squier?),had an additional 4-5 tight winds applied after the loose wraps. For whatever reason, the strings with extra winds do not seem break as frequently.

Now, whenever purchasing single strings,I cull out those without the extra wraps. My string breakage remains much reduced.

The several times that I've been put in the position of having to use Ernie Ball light gauge strings, have usually resulted in quicker breakage.

[This message was edited by Tony Glassman on 02 February 2005 at 12:46 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Glassman on 02 February 2005 at 09:44 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Glassman on 02 February 2005 at 09:59 AM.]

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 29 Sep 2011 1:48 pm

BTW I use a.012 for my high G# and they will break in approx. 12-15 hrs. playing time, it's the nature of the beast

Not with a keyless guitar! I change strings when they start to go dead, not break.

It's been a long time since I have broken a string on a GFI keyless!

Todd Brown · Post by **Todd Brown** » 29 Sep 2011 2:32 pm

It ain't gotta be keyless! How many pro's you see playing Keyless?

As was stated above about the GHS Boomers, They last. Those are the strings that came on my first steel, a Simmons. I've also used them on a couple ShoBud's, Fessenden, and MSA. Very rare to break one, but if I do, Its the 3rd at the changer. Have had 'em on an MSA Classic for for about 3 weeks now, and I haven't broke one yet! Thats playing every day. If not at home, at practice, or at a gig.

I don't understand all you guys saying that it's normal to break that 3rd string after just 3 or 15 hours of playing. That's BS to me. I think its something you guys aren't doing right. Oh, and I don't put any oil under none of the strings.

Jag's are crap. Kept breaking 3rd's and 5th strings. Even had a .38 10th string pop! No thanks!!

Owen Barnes · Post by **Owen Barnes** » 30 Sep 2011 3:42 am

.0115's should do the trick. That's what I'm using with no breakage in year.

Doug Palmer · Post by **Doug Palmer** » 30 Sep 2011 7:55 am

GHS makes two different .011 strings. The .011 is their regular string. The .011PG is for pedal guitar. Break-strength is 34 to 35 Lbs. I use them and have never broke one. I change my strings about every 8 weeks. If you can't find them let me know. Bob should have them, as he is a GHS dealer.

Doug

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 30 Sep 2011 9:55 am

The SGF store has .010PG, .011PG and .017PG along with the plain GHS strings....just bought some and tossed those spare plain GHS .011's out of my kit....no point in replacing a broken string with one designed to break soon!

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 30 Sep 2011 12:39 pm

Bob, You have already checked for the obvious mechanical problems so it sounds to me like a bad batch of strings. I have been useing John Pearse Strings for ten years now and have never had any issues with breakage or intonation with them.
Of all the suggestions you have been given here are the ones that will work.
1) Get different strings then more wraps on the key and don't over lap the string on it's self.
2) Use a .012
3) Never expect the 3rd string to last anywhere near as long as the others. The 3rd breaks first and the 5th breaks next.
4) Preventive maintenance, once you have done step 1 & 2 replace your third string approximately one playing hour before it typically breaks.
This has worked for me over 30 years.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 1 Oct 2011 8:35 am

11's were always the worst for breakage for me. 10's or 12's not so much.

Gary Preston · Post by **Gary Preston** » 1 Oct 2011 2:54 pm

G.H.S. has the 010 and 011 '' P. G. '' stress checked strings that work very well for me . I may be crazy but if i was breaking strings like this changing brands would be an easy decision for me . Some players swear by one brand of strings buy i'm not convinced of that !

There are other brands beside G.H.S. that i would and have played and in the past and would suggest also . I don't have a problem breaking strings so maybe i'm out of touch ! I have two Sho~Buds and an Emmons LeGrande 111 so maybe this helps !

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 1 Oct 2011 3:14 pm

Man, this is an old post. :)

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 10 Oct 2011 3:26 pm

wow, who dug THIS up?????,,, Anyways, that problem was corrected eons ago... I called Bud Carter right around the time of this post SIX and a half years ago, and he told me they had gotten a batch of rollers that were not machined properly and were breaking strings... they were ever so slightly off center, or out of round, from what I can recall,,, They found their way on to several carter steels back then.
Bud sent me a new set of nut rollers and a new axle, and that resolved the problem.... Seems like ancient history.... bob

Jimmie Brown · Post by **Jimmie Brown** » 10 Oct 2011 4:24 pm

Bob, I used to have the same problem with a pro model shobud.It would break the third string often and i would buy them by the dozen and then i bought a SD 10 Fessenden and have had it about 6 years and have never broke a string since.I do use the Jag strings but i don't know if that makes a difference or not.I never could figure why some guitars break strings and others do not.

Jimmie Brown · Post by **Jimmie Brown** » 10 Oct 2011 4:24 pm

Bob, I used to have the same problem with a pro model shobud.It would break the third string often and i would buy them by the dozen and then i bought a SD 10 Fessenden and have had it about 6 years and have never broke a string since.I do use the Jag strings but i don't know if that makes a difference or not.I never could figure why some guitars break strings and others do not.

Bob Mainwaring · Post by **Bob Mainwaring** » 11 Oct 2011 12:42 pm

Hi Bob,
The only strings I'll ever use are Jag-Wire on both my Z.B.'s plus both my "planks" and 5 string Banjo.

I've talked a good many pickers and grinners into using them.

All Z.B.est.

Bob.

Yannick Beaudoin · Post by **Yannick Beaudoin** » 15 Oct 2011 8:57 pm

i have jagwire for almost 1 year and play every day
and never break any strings ..... lucky i guess !

carter sd-10

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Still breaking 3rds...HELP!!

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