Lap or pedal steel guitar?

Michael Foley · Post by **Michael Foley** » 13 Sep 2016 5:19 pm

I've never played a steel guitar before. Still researching and looking for a used steel guitar that is in my price range which is admittedly on the low end of the range, reason being that if I after playing for a while I decide that playing steel guitar is not for me then I can at least sell it easily and for very close to what I paid; that way I don't pay a big price for trying out playing a steel guitar.

I like the sound of a steel guitar. I think I will be quite happy for several years just playing backup licks, ( think that's the right term for accompaniment and not playing the melody.) I do like the sound of a pedal steel but they're just beyond my price range, even the Maverick and Starter. So I'm wondering if perhaps I ought to look at a used lap steel to begin with due to the lower cost of purchasing one. I've heard some people playing some and they sounded very good to my ear. I know I won't be able to do as much without the pedals but it is also much simpler for me than dealing with pedals and levers. For me. ( I am not saying a lap is better than a pedal or vice versa.)
I'd like to see what experienced players in this forum have to say about this approach to getting started playing.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 13 Sep 2016 7:12 pm

Getting a lap steel is a good move.Right hand and bar techniques are as close to those used on PSG as makes no difference,and since there are no pedals,you'll be learning bar slants right out of the box-that's real handy even when you do have pedals.AND since you don't have pedals you don't have to worry about learning pedal technique along with the right hand and bar techniques.Having to assimilate all that at once can be a little overwhelming.A lap steel can make a lot of beautiful music...David Lindley's work on Jackson Browne's early albums is definitely worth a listen.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Sep 2016 7:20 pm

Dave makes some points. BUT a lap steel can't (readilyÂ¹) play the sounds of the pedal steel. If you want to play a pedal steel and can't afford it, talk to your bank, set up a diversion of $20/week into a savings account. In one year, you'll have a grand. Then get a Stage One.
If you eventually want to play both lap and pedal, then get a lap steel. If you want to play pedal steel, get a doggone pedal steel.
If you already have an armpit guitar, get a 5 dollar nut extender and make it a lap steel.

Â¹if you already know how to think pedal steel, you can tune a string tuned to the 3 down to 2, and pull the string behind the bar for a whole tone raise. But in order to make that work in the service of music, you already have to have pedal steel thoughts.

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 14 Sep 2016 2:36 am

Lap steel with a 6th tuning, or some type of E tuning.

Dave Stroud · Post by **Dave Stroud** » 14 Sep 2016 3:08 am

I wouldn't recommend the advice that if you want to play pedal steel, start with lap and work your way up. I'm glad I didn't follow that advice. I'd be worried that you might get discouraged by lap steel if you're set on the pedal steel sound.

Also... don't get your first steel thinking you're a 'handyman' and can fix it up. I'm very handy. But after I was defeated, I took my first steel to Steve Lamb in Ft. Worth. He told me after trying to service it, "this just isn't a very good guitar..."

I was so disappointed that I had spent $700 to get it. I sold that steel for $400 because I felt so bad for the poor soul who would take it.

Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 14 Sep 2016 5:27 am

If you eventually want to play pedal steel get a pedal steel NOW. The time you spend learning lap steel basic techniques you cold also be applying the pedal techniques.
If you want to play a banjo don't buy a ukulele!

Carl Mesrobian · Post by **Carl Mesrobian** » 14 Sep 2016 6:56 am

I bought a lap steel first, but quickly after that got a pedal steel.

Buy a pedal steel now, invest in a pro grade.

If you are not sure you'll like it, see if you can rent one somewhere.

Peter Harris · Post by **Peter Harris** » 15 Sep 2016 4:27 am

Tom Campbell wrote: If you want to play a banjo don't buy a ukulele!

If you want to play a banjo, first ask someone who knows what it sounds like..

...then buy a ukulele..

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 15 Sep 2016 7:41 am

The reason I'm a proponent of lap steel first is that I started on pedal(after playing six-string for a very long time),and got stuck in pedal-mashing and playing across the neck.Lap forces the player to go up and down the neck,which opens up a lot of things that aren't otherwise obvious.Same with bar slants.As Lane says,a lap steel can't do all the things a pedal steel can do,but it can do a lot of nice things on its own that translate to PSG.If you know some of them,you have more colors on your tonal palette.....And as we all know,there's no such thing as a good cheap pedal steel,and a lot of would-be PSG'ers come down with sticker-shock-induced nasal dislocation when they learn the degree of cost-commitment necessary to board this particular train.But lap steels are more in a six-stringer's monetary comfort zone.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 15 Sep 2016 9:47 am

In which case, a $5.95 nut extender gives you a lap steel from an armpit guitar. Assuming you already have one.

Michael Foley · Post by **Michael Foley** » 15 Sep 2016 7:39 pm

I do have a Fender Squire Strat guitar which is an entry level Fender with a decent sound. I did not know I could use it as a lap steel by replacing the nut. That is intriguing. Will I have to replace the strings with a heavy set of strings as well as the high nut? Also do I need to re-tune the strings to Mel Bay's: B D E G# B E for a steel guitar?

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 15 Sep 2016 10:43 pm

Dave Stroud wrote:I wouldn't recommend the advice that if you want to play pedal steel, start with lap and work your way up. I'm glad I didn't follow that advice. I'd be worried that you might get discouraged by lap steel if you're set on the pedal steel sound.

Well, I guess it shows how everyone is different because it worked out exactly opposite for me.

I started on a pedal steel and it was just too overwhelming and I soon gave up and got a 6 string lap. I was more into the old Hank Williams style anyway so it was the right move for me.

After a while I found a triple neck Stringmaster and a few years later ended up with a quad.

I got the pedal bug again and decided to give it another go.

This time it all made so much more sense. I already knew how to use my hands so I just had to figure out the pedals instead of trying to learn everything at once.

If you do go the lap route, I'd reccomend A6. On pedal steel with A and B engaged and your low D dropped a semitone on a knee lever you have your 6 string A6 tuning on strings 4-9. This means that every single thing you learned on A6 can be used, this has got me out of trouble so many times (I did my first pro gig on pedal steel about 9 months after getting it). If I find myself in uncharted territory, I hit that combination and I'm back on A6 till I find my bearings.

You can pick up a lovely vintage Gibson or similar for around $300 which will retain its value (maybe increase) if you decide it isn't for you. I think it's fair to say that if you can't get your head around lap steel then pedal steel is probably not the right instrument for you.

And don't forget, all the pioneers of the instrument who we still try to emulate started that way too and it didn't seem to be too much of a disadvantage to them did it?

Bill Sinclair · Post by **Bill Sinclair** » 16 Sep 2016 5:52 am

Michael Foley wrote: I did not know I could use it as a lap steel by replacing the nut.

You don't have to replace the nut. A nut riser is just a cast metal piece that straddles the nut. PM me your address and I'll send you one in the mail for nuthin'. I've forgotten what a strat bridge looks like but you'll probably want to raise the height of that as well. The normal bridge adjustment range will probably get it high enough. It'd take five minutes to change it back to a regular guitar if you don't like it.

J Fletcher · Post by **J Fletcher** » 16 Sep 2016 10:40 am

Buy a good pedal steel , single 10 string.
You will be playing cool sounding licks in no time.
Buy a copy of Winnie Winston's Pedal Steel book. You are on your way!

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 16 Sep 2016 2:09 pm

Well, if you like the way a pedal steel sounds over a lap steel, then, you should find the best steel you can afford and learn on it. Lap steels do and can sound great, but, they don't really sound like pedal steels, if that's what you actually want to do. I started on a Fender lap steel, but, quickly changed to a pedal steel. The sound that I wanted to play.
So.... It's up to you. It's your choice.

Don Barnhardt · Post by **Don Barnhardt** » 16 Sep 2016 4:14 pm

Dave Hopping gave you excellent advice. If you are really interested in steel guitar, get a 6 or 8 string lap and tune it to c6. There's a world of music to be obtained on it (take a listen to Jerry Byrd). I've been playing steel for about 67 years; have several lap steels and resonators and a pedal steel. Each has it's place and if you are truly interested in steel you'll end up trying them all. You can get more full chords with the pedal steel. But you can get an awfull lot of music from the lap in c6.

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 16 Sep 2016 10:41 pm

I started out on pedal steel because it's got the sound I'm looking for. When I was in high school, I remember telling the teacher I wanted to play steel, and he thought I meant lap steel, but I told him I meant pedal steel. I started playing on a little Emmons GS-10 that was built in 1974-it had three pedals, and one knee lever-it was a great guitar to start on, it had the sound I was looking for. I got a little lap steel in 2002, but because of my cerebral palsy in my left hand, I play more pedal steel. The best thing to do is to do what works best for you, whether it's lap steel first, then pedal steel, or pedal steel first, then lap steel, and figure out if you're leaning towards lap steel or pedal steel sounds, or lap steel, and pedal steel sounds or play both instruments, the steel guitar, lap and pedal steel is a wonderful instrument!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 17 Sep 2016 8:49 am

I think the defining questions are: what do you like to listen to, and what do you want to play? Because I'm another one of the regressors. I STILL consider Duane Allman to be THE dude who ruined my life, but after enough time (25yrs?) I just couldn't get what I wanted with a pipe on my finger and six strings, even with all the sly stuff, behind the slide, arpeggiating chords with the slipe tip and using a delay to get ALL the chord tones but in two passes... so I went right to pedals, but then found out that 8, 10 strings held flat, no pedals, with various tunings, WAS my major boat-floater. Major Forumite Andy Volk wrote a MARVY book about lap steel guitar called, amazingly,
"Lap Steel Guitar."
https://www.amazon.com/Lap-Steel-Guitar ... 1574241346
There's a lot of interviews with Big Boys; they might assist you with the... philosophical* aspects of pedal steel vs. lap. Quite a large percentage of dedicated lap players AREN'T just "too poor to buy a pedal steel"

- they/we/it/me actually prefer it. And/or play both, as well as whatever else is laying around. But playing music is hardwired-up real tight with people's individual reward systems, and (IMO) that may well be the single greatest area of differences between different peeps. At least you're in the right place here - every question you ask will cause four more!

*(must bail now... danger danger...)

Chris Brooks · Post by **Chris Brooks** » 19 Sep 2016 1:08 pm

My two cents? If you want to play pedal steel, save your money and get a pedal steel.

Chris

Steve Spitz · Post by **Steve Spitz** » 23 Sep 2016 4:17 pm

I like Lanes Idea of the nut raiser. Any option at that price is a cool first step, which might help you develop some technique while saving for the next purchase.

I played non pedal first. I think it made me a better player as I chose to pursue pedals. It made me comfortable on C6 before I could do anything on E9. I'm not so sure I'd be fluent on both tunings if it hadn't been for starting on non pedal.

It depends on what you want to play. I could find Western swing and rockabilly licks on the non pedal, and that was fine with me. I soon learned I'd need E9, and pedals, and yes, I was a bit behind on that neck, but it's all part of the journey.

Try to figure out which sound flips your switch, and enjoy the journey.

G Strout · Post by **G Strout** » 23 Sep 2016 6:47 pm

Steel guitar... lap or pedal... requires a unique skill set that is foreign to many musicians in a sense. Just my opinion but, although you want to play pedal steel, start with a lap or console steel (no pedals) to begin with. Firstly, it will not break the bank and it will get you started with the right hand grips, bar slants
and most importantly PLAYING IN TUNE!!!!!
A few months of working with that and then you can add 3-4 pedals and 4 knee levers into the mix. Baby steps one at a time. On the other hand if you have funds.. go out and and get Mullen or a Franklin or an old PP Emmons.. (God knows how much these days) and have a ball... if you can't get the hang of it put it in the closet for 20 years... and your grand kids can sell it for more than you gave for it.
I started out on lap many moons ago (1950's)... switched to pedal and am now playing a D-8 Excel Jerry Byrd. I feel like I am back home again.
I ( and others on here ) realize that you are after the pedal steel sound, but learn the basics on a non pedal steel. Just my humble opinion. Checkout some of Doug's, and Mikes instructional stuff (There is also plenty at the forum store here also.) for C6 non pedal... dig in and if you are comfortable... head off into the world of pedals. But most importantly... make sure that you are intonating correctly... ie; PLAYING IN TUNE!! Having big ears is important when playing a steel guitar
gary

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Sep 2016 1:36 pm

Bill Sinclair wrote:
Michael Foley wrote: I did not know I could use it as a lap steel by replacing the nut.
You don't have to replace the nut. A nut riser is just a cast metal piece that straddles the nut. PM me your address and I'll send you one in the mail for nuthin'. I've forgotten what a strat bridge looks like but you'll probably want to raise the height of that as well. The normal bridge adjustment range will probably get it high enough. It'd take five minutes to change it back to a regular guitar if you don't like it.

My FB profile picture is me playing my LapStrat. No bridge adjustment was needed; just a $6 nut extender.

Walter Killam · Post by **Walter Killam** » 26 Sep 2016 4:48 pm

I've been following this post with some interest, a couple of weeks ago I picked up a Rogue 6 stringer from MF for 80 bucks, and after tinkering with it a bit in the basement I finally hooked it up to an old POD, and my old Kalamazoo R12, and have been having a blast with it this afternoon. I've been fooling around with Pedal Steel for years, and feel I made some real progress today. Just in terms of getting a feel for bar handling & tone this has been an awakening experience for me. Most of my stage time is spent as a walking bass player, so I've come to realize that I think of the fret board more Horizontally than Vertically, and the lap feels less foreign to me.

As it stands I have 1/10th of the investment that I have in my pedal steel setup, AND, I'm having more fun with it. I'd say if you're leaning towards non pedal, then go for it. If nothing else learning another instrument will help you extend your understanding and interest for music in general, and if some of it extends to Pedal then bully for you!

Here's a pic of the rig

James Kerr · Post by **James Kerr** » 27 Sep 2016 1:25 pm

Michael Foley wrote:I do have a Fender Squire Strat guitar which is an entry level Fender with a decent sound. I did not know I could use it as a lap steel by replacing the nut. That is intriguing. Will I have to replace the strings with a heavy set of strings as well as the high nut? Also do I need to re-tune the strings to Mel Bay's: B D E G# B E for a steel guitar?

Have a look & listen to converted 6 string Guitar, no cost Lap Steel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPVb6mdN-dI

James.

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 29 Sep 2016 12:22 am

I play a doubleneck pedal steel. Standard E9th on the back neck and C6th on the front. Too many pedals and knee levers to count sometimes.

But every now and then I pull out an old 6-string Fender Deluxe non-pedal which stands on 3 legs. I tune it to C6th. It is an absolute hoot to play. Talk about getting back to basics and having fun at the same time!

.

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Lap or pedal steel guitar?

Lap or pedal steel guitar?

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