PSG vs. Banjo........can't decide.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 22 Aug 2016 9:17 am

The difference in steel and banjo is like the difference in being a musician and being unemployed, from the standpoint of what you'd rather say.

Harold Dye · Post by **Harold Dye** » 22 Aug 2016 9:21 am

Jim there are a couple of things you to think about. 1. If you sing the music you will play only requires one mike. All six of you can gang up around the same mike. 2. If you decide to play rap I would not think your chances are any better playing the "banger" than playing steel.

Jim Fogarty · Post by **Jim Fogarty** » 22 Aug 2016 10:43 am

Harold Dye wrote:Jim there are a couple of things you to think about. 1. If you sing the music you will play only requires one mike. All six of you can gang up around the same mike. 2. If you decide to play rap I would not think your chances are any better playing the "banger" than playing steel.

Ah, yes......there IS my hip-hop career to keep in mind. Good point!!

It's funny that a couple people here read this and went "Obviously, you're going to pick the banjo". A couple banjo playing friends read this and said "So, I guess this means you've already chosen the steel, huh?"

(PS.....If any of those banjo-type people try to acknowledge knowing me, in public, I deny it!!!!)

Jeff Harbour · Post by **Jeff Harbour** » 22 Aug 2016 11:05 am

Bud Angelotti wrote: ..it's a known fact that it's impossible to play jazz on a banjo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t23skaXL0Q

Perhaps this quote was tongue-in-cheek... I don't know. I am Not going to join the pro-banjo side of this debate... but, Bela has to be one of my very favorite improvisers.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 22 Aug 2016 12:13 pm

You want to play PSG otherwise you would have ask this question on the Banjo Forum

Ken McDaniel · Post by **Ken McDaniel** » 22 Aug 2016 12:53 pm

I have heard very few expressive banjo players. For the most part, they seem to be stuck in the 85-87 bpm range. A pedal steel guitar in the right hands, can be one of the most expressive instruments.

One more note, living about 100 miles from Nashville, I expected to find more steel players, and traditional country musicians, but alas, behind every tree is a banjo player...

Having said that, a good musician on any instrument is a pleasure to listen to...

admin · Post by **b0b** » 22 Aug 2016 12:59 pm

Ken McDaniel wrote:One more note, living about 100 miles from Nashville, I expected to find more steel players, and traditional country musicians, but alas, behind every tree is a banjo player...

Hiding in the shadows...

Jim Fogarty · Post by **Jim Fogarty** » 22 Aug 2016 1:16 pm

Ken McDaniel wrote:I have heard very few expressive banjo players. For the most part, they seem to be stuck in the 85-87 bpm range. A pedal steel guitar in the right hands, can be one of the most expressive instruments.

That is probably the most persuasive point I've heard, in this discussion, Ken.

I've never been a chops-meister on any instrument, but I pride myself in being a fairly sensitive, tasteful accompanist, when I'm playing my best. You're correct...it's THAT quality that attracts me to the steel. The banjo.......not so much. More of just a fun, blast away, thing.

I guess it comes down to..........which one attracts more chicks? Or, more accurately, which one attracts more chicks who aren't very discriminating??

Jeff Garden · Post by **Jeff Garden** » 22 Aug 2016 1:20 pm

Being a "farm instrument", the banjo definitely attracts more chicks:

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 22 Aug 2016 1:36 pm

Gotta go with Jeff on this one.
I used to get lots of chicks when I played banjo. They would dance too close and wham! right in the head!
Not so much with steel. It's too heavy. That is the downside. Of course it was an accident. She hit me pretty hard too!
Jim - As you are just learning, here is a tip I have posted before.
Chicks like to cook right?
Bring cheese or hard boiled eggs to the gig. You can cut uniform slices with the strings on the steel, 9 at a time! Takes some practice though. Try THAT on a banjo. What a mess!

John Booth · Post by **John Booth** » 22 Aug 2016 2:09 pm

Allan Kirby · Post by **Allan Kirby** » 22 Aug 2016 3:40 pm

I have played both pedal steel and banjo for many years. I find them compatible from a playing perspective. I am comfortable playing anything from bluegrass to swing to jazz on the banjo and country to swing to jazz on the steel. I have done a multitude of recording sessions with each. I work regularly with an assortment of bands and have both a banjo CD and steel guitar CD that I sell from the stage. My preferred instruments are my Gibson RB-250 banjo and my GFI Expo X1 pedal steel.

James Jacoby · Post by **James Jacoby** » 22 Aug 2016 3:42 pm

Jeff Harbour wrote:
Bud Angelotti wrote: ..it's a known fact that it's impossible to play jazz on a banjo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t23skaXL0Q

Perhaps this quote was tongue-in-cheek... I don't know. I am Not going to join the pro-banjo side of this debate... but, Bela has to be one of my very favorite improvisers.

Bela can play any musical genre, including jazz, and hard rock! A musical genius!IMHO

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 22 Aug 2016 4:03 pm

OK-OK
Bela can play jazz. So whats that. 1 banjo player in like 10 million banjo players since the banjo was invented that can play jazz?
Actually, there was this guy I once knew that could play a pretty good "Melancholy Baby" on banjo, but I suspect he was faking it.
So that makes it 2 right? Out of what, 10 million?
The real question is, can Bela play steel?
I don't think so.
But it can be done I say!
You can do it Jim

Oh, & Allan can play banjo jazz also. So that makes it 3, right?

Bill Sinclair · Post by **Bill Sinclair** » 22 Aug 2016 5:52 pm

Unless you're playing Dixieland, where it's something of a staple.

Joseph Napolitano · Post by **Joseph Napolitano** » 22 Aug 2016 6:31 pm

Jim,I'm surprised to hear that you're considering giving up playing pedal steel. For someone that's only been playing a short time, I thought you sounded terrific in the clips you posted. Seems like you're loaded with natural talent. You already play multiple instruments, what's two more? You'll pick up the banjo in no time. That'll allow you to use most of your available practice time for steel, which requires a lot of seat time, no matter how you slice it

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 22 Aug 2016 7:34 pm

..and if you play banjo, you pretty much already play dobro also...same turning, some differences in style ....

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 23 Aug 2016 4:07 am

Edit: Sorry, Mr. Hinson, I kinda misread your actual post and launched my automated "steel is groovy!" misslie defense response to a question that wasn't asked... but I'll leave it intact because there IS a certain bit of... groo... g..r....ov, uh, "redeeming social value." So, now if only those peeps get off their steel seats and GET FAMOUS, I'd even be right!

Uh-oh... soapbox time!

When it comes to well known non-country artists, groups, and bands that presently feature pedal steel regularly in their performances and recordings, I'm hard pressed to come up with even a half-dozen.

I'll meet yer half dozen, and raise you 97 more -> -> ->
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208507

Seek, and seashell wine! Besides our usual suspects, Mr. Woitach, Mike Perlowin, Jim Cohen and so on, two that boggle whichever of my braincells they can catch, two monster faves are the Japanese guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbLqRh7_aiM

And the inimitable Dave Easley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI19M5cZ4rk

When I say "inimitable", I mean it. There are any number of people who have near-perfected their Buddy Emmons imitation (not to be snidely, I have no problem with people pursuing an extant body of knowledge). NO-Body cops Dave Easley licks, largely because he doesn't PLAY "licks" and also - you CAN'T. Whatever tools he's using to generate those sequences of notes, they remain mystical. Other players - he's played with Brian Blades and Shannon McNally.

Monster Paul Franklin is all over a notable Mark Knopfler DVD, Monster Tommy White has collaborated with Lionel Richie, but the king sideman has got to be Greg Leitz - he was out with Eric Clapton for a spell -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65C5HkNJVmQ
but to ME his work with Bill Frizell was the bomb; like the Czar Bomba, really - an equal partner musically speaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07ABVFQ1GsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwlNPhn64TA

Fine jazz musician himself, Jim Cohen has somewhat organized the players from the jazz side of the tracks here:
http://www.steelguitarjazz.com/

This may have sparked a bit of listening. I can't keep listing without being conscious of all the ones I leave out; The doublers are another whole clot, Barry Sless, JOHN MAYER just dropped some lapsteel on Mike Eldred; Six-string studio studpuppy Dean Parks was touring with CSN&Y on PEDAL-steel; John Bolinger; well golly, a lot.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 23 Aug 2016 6:32 am

I think guitar, banjo, and steel are largely complementary. I've been playing guitar since the 60s, took up 5-string in the early 90s, and pedal steel about 8 years later. I started out flat picking guitar, then went hybrid (flat pick + finger picks). Banjo forced the thumb pick and finger picks, and forcing that plus learning all those banjo rolls made it, for me, a lot easier to start in on steel.

It is a challenge to find time for all 3, but it goes in waves for me. I will focus on one for a while for as long as I seem to be making progress. But that always hits a plateau, and I inductively switch to one of the others until that I hit that plateau. Rather than just sit and flail away without making much progress, I generally find that after a bit of a rest with focus on something else, I'm more focused on the first again.

Someone already said it, but doing fast banjo rolls is also good for exercising the fingers. Yes, the finger picking technique is somewhat different. But I think that, after a period of years, it gets easier to switch around.

I just picked up a stellar new banjo, it's definitely motivating me to play more banjo. I think it will only be good for me overall. I really do think many aspects of banjo and steel transfer. OK, not all aspects, but many. I guess I should add - if one is willing to look for the commonality instead of avoiding it.

IMHO, forget about all the BS pointed at the banjo on this forum. There is actually a much larger audience for banjo than pedal steel. Beyond that, I think a solid utility player on several instruments is much more marketable than a specialist, unless you really reach the upper stratosphere of virtuosity. I guess I'd say that if you're going for that upper echelon, then it's critical to focus on it. Otherwise, I think all can be learned at a pretty decent level.

YMMV, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Jeff Garden · Post by **Jeff Garden** » 23 Aug 2016 6:44 am

to add to what Dave said, I think there are probably way more of us "closet" banjo pickers on the Forum than you'd think who enjoy the variety of playing both instruments.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 23 Aug 2016 7:42 am

If you're going to play your banjo in the closet, please close the door.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Aug 2016 7:56 am

All points well taken, David.

As a matter of fact, I was thinking of you as I was doing the above post. Still, it begs the question...where, today, is non-country pedal steel regularly on the (Top 100) chart stuff? Back in the day, we had Rusty Young and Poco with a dozen or so chart records, Bobby Black w/Commander Cody probably had a half-dozen, too. We had Eagle's stuff, Elton John, Gerry Rafferty, the Starland Vocal Band, and a few other things that featured some significant steel. And later on, there was Paul's with with Dire Straits.

Still, when I check out the current "Hot 100" chart, things aren't that encouraging. Jason Aldean's "Lights On" video shows the steeler a couple of times, briefly, but there sure ain't much in the record. Blake Shelton's "She's Got A Way With Words" features a little more steel playing, but although there's a pedal steel in the video, there ain't nobody playing it!

A few other modern-country chart things don't have noticeable pedal steel (though it may be buried way down in the thrashing). But, since Carrie Underwood's "Church Bells" features a banjo intro, I guess there's still hope for 5-stringers.

Look, IMHO I know there's lots of steel still out there, but there seems to be a big industry pox on it. It seems that as far as the big labels are concerned, We're the red-headed, dropout stepchildren w/warts and acne. Sure, we're still a part of the music "family", but they don't really want to show us to the public.

Oh, for the old daze. $:\$ This was one of my faves, with an atypical A&B pedal-mashing intro and ride. Enjoy it, because you don't hear this stuff very often!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1_Op4-G33M

Jeff Garden · Post by **Jeff Garden** » 23 Aug 2016 7:58 am

I know the rules, b0b...I only play here in my specially adapted music room so as not to offend. I recently expanded to a "two-holer" in case the fiddle player or the bagpiper show up.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 23 Aug 2016 8:17 am

Right On Donny !
Now, of course we all pretty much know how the steel could be used in alot of the more popular music thats going on nowadays if it wasn't so pigeon holed as a strictly country sound.
Now, all kidding aside, imagine the banjo doing the same thing. Right. It just doesn't work. The banjo has one basic sound. Of course in the hands of a Mr. Fleck, the choice of notes and the type of music played has greatly expanded. Thanks Mr. Fleck! But, it really is a one trick pony as far as the actual sound coming out of the thing.
And of course it's much more than the steel being an electric instrument with effects and so forth.
Carry on!

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 23 Aug 2016 8:35 am

Bill Sinclair wrote:Unless you're playing Dixieland, where it's something of a staple.

That's a different kind of banjo, Bill. They have only four strings and have a different tuning. But they are still loud.