Sho-Bud Pro II - first look and mechanical question...

[Ron Gordon]

Hi All,

I just acquired a Sho-Bud Pro II circa July '74, and being a gear/mechanical junky, I've spent more time under the guitar then playing it.



So first question.

Should the pull rod barrel ends be tight up against the nut piece.

(I'm still wrapping my head around part terminology so if anyone has a diagram I'd love to see that)

In the two pictures below you can see that there's some play in the rod when the pedal is in the up position.

In the second picture I was able to just pull the rod a little bit with my fingers to lead to that resting rod position.

This is the action on the B pedal on an 8 pedal, 4 knee level Sho-Bud Pro II.

Is this play in the rod desirable or should it be tightened up so there's no slack in the rod when the pedal is in the up position?

Thanks.

Ron

[Jerry Malvern]

Ron, you want to make sure it does some slack in between. Too much, the guitar plays sloppy, no slack you run the risk of the pedal or lever not returning to pitch. But first things first. Take the brass barrel, unscrew it, then screw it in, counting the number of turns, then back it out by 1/2 the number of turns. Then slide it back on the rod, about a 1/16 of slack, tighten it down and give her a try. I hope this gives you an "ah-ha" moment.

[Ron Gordon]

Thanks Jerry!

They are all "ah-ha" moments presently…



But this is a really good one.

Thanks again.

Best,

Ron

[Ron Gordon]

So I tried to loosen the set screw on the brass barrel with a small allen wrench to no avail...

smallest one on my set is a 1.5 is too small, next up is an allen wrench size 2 which is too big.

So next question is, what tools do I need to tweak this Sho-Bud Pro II?

thanks again.

Ron

[William Liemandt]

Ron - All my ShoBud barrel set screws use a 1/16" hex wrench - not metric sized wrenches.

[Ron Gordon]

Thanks William, I've got one somewhere.

I'll give it a go...

what other tools are helpful on adjusting a Pro II besides the alan wrench for tuning the rods and a regular screwdriver and an adjustable wrench?

I'm considering changing up the pulls as this one is half Emmons and half Day from a setup stand point.

I'm not sure I'm brave enough to tackle it yet, but I'm thinking that either standard setup might be better to learn on.

Here's what the Copedent is now:

Pedal A raises strings 5 and 10 from B to C#

Pedal B raises strings 3 and 6 from G# to A

Pedal C has a double pull action on strings 4 and 5, i.e. E and B which raises them to F and C on the first pull and F# and C# on the second pull.

LKL lowers strings 4 and 8, from Es to D#s

LKR raises strings 4 and 8, from Es to Fs

RKL has a double pull action and it raises strings 1 an 5 from F# and B to G and A on the first pull and then G# and A# on the second pull.

RKR has a double pull action for string 2, lowering the D# to a D on the first pull and down to a C# on the second. RKR also lowers string 9 from a D to a C#, but there's no second pull for this string.

I am a newbie so whatever setup I learn is fine, but my question is am I making things more difficult not going more standard or is this a cool setup for some other reason?

thanks all!

[Tony Prior]

it's a wonderful guitar and perhaps the BEST sounding Sho Bud system ever.

To answer the question, NO not all barrels will be snug to the brass puller, the thin strings with barrels will be different than the thicker strings with barrels. Each string has it's own physics pulling properties based on it's gauge. This is why we see modern all pull guitars with multiple PULL positions on the pullers ( 4 to 14 holes) We hear the phrase TIMING THE PULLS, this is what they are talking about.

If you are up for it, while UNDER the guitar, remove all the barrels and rods, clean them and set all the barrels to mid point, ( make sure they all fully function) clean the pullers etc...put a dab of lube on the pullers then put it all back together. The photo's show age and grit on the rods, which is typical and normal for an instrument of it's age. This will go a very long way for this Steel going forward.

You may also find some set screws that need replacing in this process. Grab a bunch at the hardware store along with the right size hex wrenches and inside of a couple of hours this baby will be singing Dixie ! If you are not comfortable with taking it all apart at one time, do one rod at a time. Same thing...same result.

Another major benefit is you will LEARN quickly how this all pull system works.

You probably won't have to ever do this again as this cleaning process will last you 20 years or more !

great axe ! Good luck

t

PS, check the compression Snap Ring clips that are holding the brass pullers to the bell cranks as well. These cost pennies, put new ones on if you are up for it.

OH Yeah..TAKE PICTURES before you start so you have a reference if you are not certain.

[Craig Baker]

Just finished working on another project that required even smaller hex wrenches than my Pro II.

Only place I could find them was Grainger, they have an excellent set of small and very small hex wrenches, and they are very reasonable.

Craig

[Skip Edwards]

Don't lube the threads on the barrels… you want them kinda stiff to turn…so the gtr won't untune itself as you play.
And, I agree… Sho-Bud at it's finest hour...

[Ron Gordon]

Thanks so much for the info guys, truly appreciated.

As far as switching up the Copedent to something for standard from what it is now, thoughts?

One suggestion was switching the LKL and LKR to it's traditional functionality as it's reversed on this steel.

Again, I'm fine to learn it the way it is now, but the idea of being able to use traditional teaching materials is appealing as well.

Thanks again!

-Ron

[Ron Gordon]

Thanks Craig,

which set did you wind up getting if you don't mind me asking?

Grainger has a ton of them..

Thanks!

Best,

Ron

Just finished working on another project that required even smaller hex wrenches than my Pro II.

Only place I could find them was Grainger, they have an excellent set of small and very small hex wrenches, and they are very reasonable.

Craig

[Lane Gray]

Ordinarily, I recommend people learn to play what they have, until they know enough to know what they want to try.
But your RKL is goofy and well out of the mainstream.
I'd lose the half stop, raise 1 to G and move the 5th string to a 6th string lower. If you need another rod, let me know

[Ron Gordon]

Thanks Lane.

I see what you're saying to have the opportunity to grab two more Gs..

thank you.

[Craig Baker]

Ron,
The hex wrench part number was # 1 4RE49

Some were tiny, I use them for very small knobs when working on aircraft radios.

Couldn't find them anywhere but Grainger. Less than $2.00 for the set.

Craig

[Ron Gordon]

thanks so much for the info!

Best,

Ron

[Gene Haugh]

Ron,
There must be a tiny bit of free play before the roller on the bell crank comes in contact with the brass tuning collar. On the E9th neck the smallest string has the most travel and should be the closest to the roller.
If there is no space or free play the guitar will certainly over tune.
When I set up a guitar I try for 1/16" free play between the tuning collar and the roller on the smallest string.
Tune the guitar to standard set your free play and tune the pull note with the cap screw shown in your picture. The larger string should take care of itself as long as there is enough free play.
Gene

[Eric Dahlhoff]

I would swap the left knees - my leg would never be able to pres the A pedal & LKR(E to F) at the same time

[Ron Gordon]

thanks guys!