Wagon Wheel

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 1 Jul 2016 8:01 am

Remember this song by Perry Como?

"Round And Round"

Find a wheel and it goes round, round, round
As it skims along with a happy sound
As it goes along the ground, ground, ground
Till it leads you to the one you love

And surely all the graybeards will remember this one..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g03mKDhQo6M

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Jul 2016 11:17 am

Barry, I bought a big case of 45 RPM records, sight unseen, at an auction a few years back, and they turned out to be all new, unplayed Perry Como singles! He was a fine singer in his day, kinda the pop version of Jim Reeves. Of course, our band also played "Wheels" by the Stringalongs back in the '60s, when I played lead guitar. We had a guitar instrumental band, and could play chart instrumentals for hours. There were a ton of them back then.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Jul 2016 12:14 am

I guess I'm not gettin' it, WW is a well written song, lots of vocal harmonies and a different chord structure than a typical Sears and Roebuck chord chart which gives players a chance to stretch over a nice progression different from a typical I,IV ,V...

Plus it has geographical significance as well as WRITER history.

And then there is this, people love it and love to sing along to it.

Why is that a bad thing ?

I've played Release Me and For The Good Iimes many hundreds of times more than I have played Wagon Wheel and neither of those tunes pack the dance floor.

I guess we could always substitute Four Walls on the set list instead of Wagon Wheel

So, I got nuthin'...

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 2 Jul 2016 12:44 am

The chord changes are just to worn out for me, same with many other songs I used to like in the seventies. How often can you repeat them without getting bored?
Only my opinion. $:\$

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Jul 2016 1:02 am

Joachim Kettner wrote:The chord changes are just to worn out for me, same with many other songs I used to like in the seventies. How often can you repeat them without getting bored?
Only my opinion. $:\$

No argument...

but aren't they all worn out ?

IF we are playing a typical gig week after week, year after year, decade after decade, can we not say the exact same thing about 99% of the songs we play ?

I play in cover bands, I play the set list, I pretty much don't care whats on it, I'm just glad to be there ! . Sure I agree , some of the tunes get old, no doubt.

But I still like it even if I am playing For The Good Times for the 10,000 time !

At least WW has 4 chords , thats one more than 90% of the set list !

I view each song as an opportunity to play something a bit different which is what motivates me even if nobody in the band even recognizes I just added a 2nd string unison phrase on the turn around. Thats their loss !

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 2 Jul 2016 1:09 am

I guess I'm spoiled by stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agGdoovtMic

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Jul 2016 1:27 am

kool ! I'll see if i can get the guys to add it to the set list !

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 2 Jul 2016 3:16 am

Yes, this deserves being covered. Good luck Tony!

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 2 Jul 2016 5:47 am

Barry Blackwood wrote:And surely all the graybeards will remember this one..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g03mKDhQo6M

It's so old I forgot the title and name of the group. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. It was more memorable than Wagon Wheel.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 2 Jul 2016 6:20 am

I learned the song a couple of years ago when my guitar students asked about it. It's a good song for teaching chords and strums to students. I've never played it in a band though. I think the video is pretty interesting, the country carnival, the weird girls dancing, etc.

I think the reason so many people don't like the song is the repetitious pattern, same chord pattern over and over and over on both verse and chorus. The melody of the verse and chorus are very similar too. That makes the song drone on and get boring after a few minutes IMO.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Jul 2016 6:39 am

Doug Beaumier wrote:
I think the reason so many people don't like the song is the repetitious pattern, same chord pattern over and over and over on both verse and chorus.

Uhmmm. Sounds like Country Music to me

or Louie Louie or maybe every Chuck Berry song every written !

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 2 Jul 2016 7:45 am

I think with Wagon Wheel, it's kind of become the hippie national anthem at every drum circle and backwoods jam session. It gets played every night and goes on forever!!!!!! I walked through the camp grounds at a big jamband festival last summer and heard "WW" played 15 times while just trying to get to my truck.
Some people see a banjo and fiddle on stage and just expect you to play Wagon Wheel all night now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pW6QgYGbcc

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 2 Jul 2016 10:12 am

Tony mentioned Louie Louie and Alvin wrote about it as being a hippie & drum circle anthem.

I was thinking of Louie Louie awhile back, and how Wagon Wheel had become several years ago sort of a college frat party anthem that Louie Louie was in the '60s.

My two daughters graduated from different University of California schools four years ago, and the younger went to UC Santa Barbara. Everything you've heard about UCSB being a party mecca is true - and I thought it might have passed its expiration date with the reputation which as I recall began decades ago when they used to rank top party schools in Playboy Magazine. Well it hasn't - the younger generation has held up the tradition. And sometimes you'd hear Wagon Wheel blasting from speakers in the student housing areas.

Which I think is kind of cool. Here is a bluegrassy song being enjoyed by contemporary partying students and it sure ain't rap music. Nice change.

I wonder if the current designation as a successor to the "No Stairway to Heaven" sign is more a product of former Blowfish Darius Rucker having a big hit with it in 2012? Old Crow Medicine Show recorded it in 2004. I don't recall when my daughters went off to college eight years ago that there was a stigma attached to it at the time.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 2 Jul 2016 1:29 pm

Here are some interesting quotes from Wikipedia:

Requests

This "catchy country-infused sing-along" has "taken on the status of 'Free Bird'"â€”"in that it has become a bar room staple that drunks love to loudly request at every show, regardless of who the band is". "It has become our generation's 'Freebird.'"

Bans

It has become such a popular cover song at musical gatherings, venues and events that some discourage its performance. At the Swampfire Sessions, Cranford states: "We banned it. (We) literally put signs up that said 'Absolutely No Wagon Wheel.'" â€œMan, some of us hate that song," he said. "Others play it all the time." Cranford, who used to play "Wagon Wheel" on request, quit doing so after Rucker's cover. "This song was great when Dylan wrote it and Old Crow played it, but once Darius Rucker flooded the airwaves with his version, all hope was lost," he said.

Frank Freniere · Post by **Frank Freniere** » 2 Jul 2016 8:42 pm

Try substituting Lou Reed's "Wagon Wheel."

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 Jul 2016 12:04 am

Yeah, I do believe that things went off the rails after Darius Rucker covered it. I think the hatred started as a hipster thing - hipsters have tended to hate anything he was associated with, back to Hootie and the Blowfish. Can't say as I've ever been a fan, but I think some people take this too far.

I was playing this song routinely 12 years ago and nobody had this reaction, it was just another Americana tune. People liked it, but it was no big deal. I feel the same as Tony - here's a Bob Dylan / Old Crow Medicine Show penned Americana tune that lays out nicely on steel of any sort and most 'regular' bar patrons like and want you to play. Around here, if you don't play what people want to hear, you get fired - or you never get hired in the first place. Seems simple enough to me - if your fans really want you to play it, play it - otherwise skip it. I'll tell you - I have to laugh when someone says they won't play this 'out of principle'. Seriously, what 'principle'?

I also can't support the idea that people or groups have a 'right' to dictate what other people should listen to. Smacks of groupthink too much for me and is, ironically, just a different type of groupthink than the one that causes most everyone else to clamor for it. But I think it's easy enough to vote with your dollars - if you don't like that a band plays Wagon Wheel or anything else, just go hang out somewhere else.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 3 Jul 2016 1:19 am

Dave Mudgett wrote: I feel the same as Tony -

As you should !

here's a Bob Dylan / Old Crow Medicine Show penned Americana tune that lays out nicely on steel of any sort and most 'regular' bar patrons like and want you to play.

If you don't like that a band plays Wagon Wheel or anything else, just go hang out somewhere else.

My thoughts exactly...I get a call to play a gig , I just play whatever is on the set list. I'm never concerned with the songs I know, such as WW, I'm concerned with the songs I don't know ! I'm happy to get a call and a gig with a band , I don't much care if they play WW.

Like many I've been covering many of the same songs for decades, WW is one of them and I can say this with accuracy, the bands I have played with over the last decade that cover songs like WW, well, they are still gigging.

Now add that there are many NEW bands that are seeking gigs and they are building a set list so they can play many of the popular dance halls, I am assuming we can all guess what song (s) are on the set list ! They want to go out and play.

regarding gigs, dances, clubs etc, a mediocre band with a great (popular) set list is better than a great band with a lousy set list.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 3 Jul 2016 3:44 am

The wagon wheel may come from the Blues standard "Rock Me Baby". I've grown tired of that one also.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 3 Jul 2016 7:47 am

Joachim Kettner wrote:The wagon wheel may come from the Blues standard "Rock Me Baby". I've grown tired of that one also.

I don't hear any connection between those songs other than the 3 words in the title. "Rock Me Baby" is a 12 bar blues tune. "Wagon Wheel" is an 8-bar folk song. They have different rhythms and use different scales. Bob Dylan was probably aware of B.B. King's song (it was a big hit), but the "rock me" trope appears in countless songs dating back to the beginning of recorded music.

I think that Wagon Wheel has more in common with the Wagon Train tv show theme song than with any blues standard.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 3 Jul 2016 8:09 am

I agree, nothing in common but three words. Wagon Wheel is certainly not a 12 bar blues song. It's more like a 1970's hippie acoustic jam song. Unfortunately, the chord pattern & the melody are the same in the verse and the chorus, over and over, and the song gets boring very quickly. It needs a bridge to break up the monotony.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 3 Jul 2016 8:37 am

It wasn't Dylan's first boring chord progression. Consider "You Ain't Going Nowhere", another crowd pleaser. I don't like it when the verse and chorus have the same chords, but the dancers don't seem to mind at all.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 3 Jul 2016 9:13 am

Now I'm the dumb one? I was only pointing out that 'it's roll me like you roll a wagon wheel'. I was only refering to the lyrics not the harmonies!

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 3 Jul 2016 10:12 am

It wasn't Dylan's first boring chord progression. Consider "You Ain't Going Nowhere"

Yes, and "All Along the Watchtower", same chord pattern: verse and chorus

And "Knocking on Heaven's Door", same chord pattern: verse and chorus

admin · Post by **b0b** » 3 Jul 2016 11:31 am

Hmm.. As a steel player, I don't often listen to lyrics. I see that there is the same rhyme (wagon wheel & feel).

"I want you to roll me baby, like you roll a wagon wheel
Want you to roll me baby, you don't know how it makes me feel"
- B.B. King

"So rock me momma like a wagon wheel
Rock me momma any way you feel"
- Bob Dylan

Dylan credited the phrase "Rock me, mama" to bluesman Arthurâ€…"Bigâ€…Boy"â€…Crudup, so you may have something there.

Garry Vanderlinde · Post by **Garry Vanderlinde** » 3 Jul 2016 9:43 pm

Why would you dis' a song when you can make people happy by playing it?
They are probably the ones stuffing $$ in the tip jar.