Is a Promat an Emmons Fake?

Donald Dunlavey · Post by **Donald Dunlavey** » 20 Dec 2004 7:13 am

My take on the fretboard issue, is any Luthier, could make nice wood fingerboards, with frets instead of lines and you could use pearl dots for markers or you could get very artistic with inlays. Just wonder why you hardly see this as opposed thin pieces of paper with graphics? SEEms, like a nice Brazilina board may even add to tone. Has always been considered the best in Acoustic guitars for bridges, fingerboards, sides, and backs. Any comments?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 20 Dec 2004 12:42 pm

While I agree that a wood fingerboard with real frets would look really good, it could have unintended effects on tone. The Emmons p/p has a hollow floating neck that is screwed to the body at only a few points. The famous tone is affected by how tight the screws are. To some extent you can actually tune the tone by tightening or loosening the neck. However, if the wood fretboard was thin and simply placed on top of the existing neck, that might not affect tone.

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 20 Dec 2004 1:07 pm

David is right about the floating hollow necks.
I bought some of those a while back from a guy here in Holland for practicly nothing.
And those necks do make your steel sound different.The ones I used for My last SD10's have only 4 screws to hold it down.
I am starting on a new prototype that will have wooden necks.These necks will be hollow as well.And I sure like the idea of those wooden fretboards.
Thanks guys for the great idea.Make them old fashioned style with little white pearl inlays.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 20 Dec 2004 2:43 pm

I like the idea of the hollow wooden necks, anxious to here how they sound

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 20 Dec 2004 2:59 pm

Jim.

You are not the only one.haha
Might turn out to be one big resonating block of metal and wood.
Haven't decided yet what type of wood I will be using.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 20 Dec 2004 4:14 pm

I don't see what the big deal is about the Emmons fret Board. You can buy them and what is stopping anyone from putting a Emmons fret board on any other brand of steel. I built a Steel and bought a Emmons fret board and put a Emmons fret board on it.I wanted to use it to get use to playing with that fret board as a freind had a Emmons and I use to go to his home and I would play it. I got use to it. I now have a new Emmons La grande III and I can play the devil out of it.Emmons never told me I could not use thier fret board.
Sam White

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 20 Dec 2004 5:27 pm

Damir,

Do you know the cost of a Promat double ten push pull, including

instrument
freight
custom tariff

Regards, tbh

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 20 Dec 2004 6:48 pm

TB,
I think it is 3500 euros + freight.Guys,to try to get a Promat to US was my idea so please be easy on Promat.I got my guitar and was so impresed that I wanted to offer it to you guys if anyone wants a new push pull.Promat was never intended to be any kind of competition to any other manufacturer,and how can it be with its super low production.It is a hand made instrument and pure labor of love.Thank you for all the positive replies.

I`m sorry,I had to do it.I`m in love with this guitar...

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 20 December 2004 at 07:02 PM.]

Post by **Joey Ace** » 20 Dec 2004 7:02 pm

I don't understand the "putting American worker out of a job" complaint. Almost all Push Pull guitars purchased in the last 20 years have been used instruments.

I am glad there are new ones being produced.
Compitition is good for everyone.

Personally I prefer the originals, something about the "vintage vibe" is very attractive to me.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 20 Dec 2004 7:08 pm

Joey,
that is what I`m so excited about with Promat.It feels just like an push pull,it looks like a push pull and definetly has a tone of the push pull.But,it`s brand new.It would be like buying a brand new `66 Corvette in 2004.You know how people say sometimes for some new modern products: "they don`t make`em as they used to",well they do Promat.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 20 December 2004 at 07:11 PM.]

Jack Musgrave · Post by **Jack Musgrave** » 20 Dec 2004 7:53 pm

well, I do have to admit that they are a fine looking guitar. they also have some pretty good players endorsing them. heck, I may even own one someday, I would however like to see them create their own self image

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 21 Dec 2004 2:30 am

Do you know the cost of a Promat double ten push pull

3600Euro+shipping is the exact price.

And why can't someone produce these guitars outside the U.S?If you kick everything that is produced outside the U.S (because you think that you can produce these things yourself)you all live in poverty.Look at Japan.
All your bigscreen T.V's are produced in Japan.And it's a European invention.

I would however like to see them create their own self image

If I understand correctly then you don't like the idea that someone is earning money on somebody elses invention.
correct me if I am wrong:But IMO that is what al builders are doing.Including me.

We all use the All Pull invention.
Just because we don't like to take the effort to build a P/P steel guitar.
A P/P mechanisme takes a lot more time to build then a All Pull changer.

I think that this has nothing to do with the P/P invention.
I never saw the company that brought the Multicord complain that Emmons used their invention.Because they invent the All Pull changer.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 21 Dec 2004 3:37 am

You guys are really funny. First you complain because p/p's aren't built any more and then you turn around and complain some more because they are.

Once a patent has expired anyone can copy the technology without infringing on the design. You CANNOT copy the trademarked logos, outlines, names, etc.

The Promat appears to be a well crafted instrument that faithfully adheres to the pushpull design. I haven't seen one yet, but I'd be willing to bet the workmanship is superior to that of the originals.

3,600 euro is about $4,800+ at current exchange rate. add freight, duty, and taxes coming into the USA and you'll probably be spending something North of $5,300. Unless you "smuggle" it in coming back from the Continent claiming it was used or just not declaring it. :0

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John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars

www.steelguitar.com
www.steelguitarinfo.com
www.carterstarter.com

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 21 Dec 2004 5:03 am

Ok Thank you John for the math $5300 landed in the USA. How would this compare with an Emmons reissue push pull, pricewise?

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 21 Dec 2004 8:28 am

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/009150.html

I haven't seen one yet, but I'd be willing to bet the workmanship is superior to that of the originals.

My thoughts exactly.

I for one would welcome a builder that takes the effort to try and build a steel guitar like the Promat.

There are players that claim that the Promat even has a better sound then the Emmons P/P.

I hope that I will be hearing one pretty soon.
Heck...maybe I order one.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

Steve Alcott · Post by **Steve Alcott** » 21 Dec 2004 11:35 am

If you look in any publication having to do with the violin family,you wil find a multitude of new instruments built on a "model",ie. Stradivarius,Amati,Guarnerius,etc.The luthier Barrie Kolstein has recently completed a bass modeled on the late Scott LaFaro's Prescott.Nobody who tries this instrument thinks they're playing the original instrument.My point is,makers seek out inspiration from proven successful designs and make their own versions;sometimes better,sometimes not.Whether they are "foreigners"or not is not an issue.Is it a good machine for making music or not?The maker of the Promat likes the P-P design enough to create his own version.More power to him and my best wishes for his success in his endeavour.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 21 Dec 2004 11:52 am

Do Promat's have the the PIN that holds the string, like the Emmons's?

I'd like to see that feature fade into history.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 21 Dec 2004 1:40 pm

I bought and sold a very nice Emmons SD10 p/p for $1500. Don't see the justfication YET for spending $5300 on one of these guitars. Am I missing something?

Are they made in Croatia, Damir?

Rick

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 21 Dec 2004 2:43 pm

Rick yes they are made there.

I have played and looked under the hood of a few PPs, the last before Damir's was Brad Sarnu's Brown one for demoing the BB at ISGC.

The workmanship on Damir's leaves nothing to be desired.
It has that made by a fanatic kind of feel.

Rick are you missing anything... yep playing one!

I ain't the greatest player , but I know enough to tell a good instrument from bad.
And this is a killer horn. I played Damir's, and I saw Bobbe Seymor on video playing it...
man, even on a TV speaker it sounds great.

My only issue is that my copedent isn't very compatible with the PP mechanism.

But I would love to have one of these, it has a SOUND...
They gonna hear you sweet and clear in the cheap seats![This message was edited by David L. Donald on 21 December 2004 at 02:49 PM.]

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 21 Dec 2004 7:01 pm

Thank you Mr.John Fabian for a such a kind words.Joey,yes ,Promat has a pin that holds a string.Price...well,that is relative,is it $5000+ expencive?you bet it is,I bought a Stelling Red Fox banjo and paid $4200 for it.And it took a year to get build.And that is one of the cheapest Stelling banjos,the high end ones go up to 10K and some up to a 30K.Gibson`s RB 250 (wich is the cheapest model) is also around $3500.So is it $5000 a lot for the hand made custom built pedal steel?Mr.Papic is an enthusiast and his dream is (and always was) to see people play his guitars and be happy with his work.Love for the pedal steel was always on the first place.I never intend to push the Promat,I just wanted you guys to know that there is possible now to get a new push pull if you really want one.David (thousand chords) Donald,thank you.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~