Is a Promat an Emmons Fake?

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 19 Dec 2004 5:08 am

I was playing an Emmons push pull yesterday. Wow! what a guitar. I was looking underneath and it had two numbers: a serial number and also a patent number 3447413.I have two questions:

1. Has this patent expired?

2. If it hasn't expired, how come foreigners are able to make copies in a foreign country and sell them in the USA.

Tom Callahan · Post by **Tom Callahan** » 19 Dec 2004 5:20 am

tb; I don't believe to the best of my knowledge that the guitar in question has ever been represented as an Emmons guitar.
The fake deal comes from someone supposedly putting the logo of one guitar on a fake or reproduction and offering it for sale as that brand.
The promat has never been represented to my knowledge to be an Emmons. If looking like one style of guitar but having another name entirely is "Fake" then there are a lot of little builders in trouble with Sho Bud and other Brand names.
I know nothing about the guitar but for what I have read on the forum. Did not take me long to figure out that I can't afford one.
tom

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 19 Dec 2004 5:34 am

That patent expired in the mid 80's.

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John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars

www.steelguitar.com
www.steelguitarinfo.com
www.carterstarter.com

Jack Musgrave · Post by **Jack Musgrave** » 19 Dec 2004 9:36 am

The only problem that I have is that they are using the Emmons fret boards. If you are going to make your own brand of guitar, use your own colors

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 19 Dec 2004 10:00 am

Right JACK,no room for copy cats...make your own all the way!!!! farris

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 19 Dec 2004 10:20 am

Tom and John,
your help and info are very much appreciated.Thank you.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 19 Dec 2004 10:48 am

While not an "Emmons Fake," per se, they look a lot like an Emmons P/P, without the decal, and they're obviously trying to tap into the market of those wanting the classic sound of a REAL Emmons push-pull guitar. And good luck to them!

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 19 Dec 2004 10:54 am

I see where Damir has done nothing wrong. The patent has expired even though he may be using Emmons fretboards. I do not ever recall him saying the guitar was an Emmons even though to my eyes it looks like an Emmons guitar to me. My question would be "Is he selling any of them"?

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 19 Dec 2004 11:27 am

Hi Paul,
Damir isn't the one building them, he's just a happy and satisfied owner. My understanding is that Bobbe Seymour at Steel Guitar Nashville is the dealer in the U.S. for this brand.

Lem

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 19 Dec 2004 11:40 am

Unless the Emmons company has trademarked the fretboard design, Promat is probably doing nothing wrong.

On the other hand, I like the fact that each brand has its own unique fretboard design. To use a marketing term, it's just part of the overall "branding" of the instrument. For example, the card suit design will always say "Sho-Bud" to me...

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Greg Sullivan · Post by **Greg Sullivan** » 19 Dec 2004 2:41 pm

I have a friend who has a mint condition excellent Emmons push pull guitar. It is condidered Vintage because of it's age.

I have played on a few other brands and although I am not a steeler by any means.

The patent may have expired, but the sound and tone hasn't.

An Inexperienced Steel Player but one who hears the difference.

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 19 Dec 2004 2:59 pm

My prototypes have Emmons Fretboards too.
I am on the look out for a company that can provide me with some blank boards but till now no such luck.
Maybe Promat has the same problem.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 19 Dec 2004 3:24 pm

Ron,

If you check with Wayne Link he has blank fretboards just with the lines on them. I bought two of them and had Reece's daughter, (who is an amazing artist by the way) paint in the chess pieces for my restoration project MSA Classic. tbh

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 19 Dec 2004 5:48 pm

I don't think the Promat is a "fake".

The perception is, however, that it is "clone".

As much as I would like to have a new Push-Pull, I have to be honest. I don't like copies or clones. Tone matters but so does looks, style, feel, and uniqueness. A pedal steel guitar really is a work of art in addition to being an electrical/mechanical musical instrument.

I would prefer that the Promat designer lose the fretboard and be unique. I'm sure it is a fine pedal steel guitar.

Just my $.02

Terry

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 19 Dec 2004 5:59 pm

I have to agree about the fret boards.I did however suggested to Promat to design a different fret boards,but they don`t care.One thing,and only one thing is important to Promat, tone.They don`t have laquer guitars because the mica one sound better,and that ,certain thickness of mica.Promat chnagers are way different than any other,90% of the measurements are different also.Material Promat guitars are made of is different.Strings angles are different.I don`t think Promat is copy of anything, is it a clone?Is the Mullen Sho~Bud`s clone?I don`t think so,and to be honest with you I don`t care and I`m to the point where I`m tired of listening all this BS and bashing of these guitars.You can either buy it or don`t, you can like it or not but if you don`t have anything nice to say about it or someone,please don`t say anything.
Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 19 Dec 2004 7:41 pm

Tom Bradshaw has a topic about fretboards for sale, under accessories. I think patterns other than Emmons are available.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 19 Dec 2004 9:30 pm

I think it's fantastic that these guitars are being made, and I really enjoyed the pictures Damir posted on the other thread. I'd love to try one.

Chris Haston · Post by **Chris Haston** » 19 Dec 2004 9:41 pm

I don't think that every reply on the forum should be positive. To be sometimes critical and honest is far more educational than just strictly positive posts. I'd like to hear one of these guitars soon.

Jerry Warner · Post by **Jerry Warner** » 19 Dec 2004 10:28 pm

i here all this about the promat p/p guitar how would it stand up w/ the true 67 emmons guitar p/p just would like to know and if BUBBY EMMONS is reading this or BOBBE SEYMOUR what do you guys think compared on these guitar's, come on BUDDY& bobbe YOU ARE THE PRO'S, WHAT DO YOU THINK IF YOU HAVE PLAYED OR NOT HAVE PLAYED ONE OF THESE GUITAR'S, Buddy had to play one of these guitar's, man both of you are great, just wish and i will leave it at that. thanks!

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 20 Dec 2004 3:18 am

Damir,

I left Europe 18 years ago and came to live in this great country of the USA. I have been a citizen here for 13 years. I have come to love this country and would gladly fight for this country if called to do so.

Recently our manufacuring base has been eroded by peolple outsourcing or making cheap copies of our products in Eastyer Europe and third world countries, and then selling them back to us, resulting in many of our dear workers being unemployed.

If we have an influx of these guitars from Eastern Europe it will mean less work for OUR workers and more work for foreign workers.

We cannot stop these things being made and brought into our country, but sure as hell we can buy American. If we do not buy these things they will start to disappear, and our local steel guitar economy will flourish. tbh

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 20 Dec 2004 3:24 am

One final thought! I have no doubt that the Promat is a fine guitar. I guess as an American, I would feel much better if the owners wouild move to the USA, set up their business here, and employ local builders. If this were the case I would probably be one of the first to place an order.

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 20 Dec 2004 3:26 am

Hmmmm! I understand the problem with those imports making life difficult for American manufacturers. Having said that I, due to what I've been reading and seing about Promats on the web, wouldn't exactly say that those PSG's qualifies as cheap copies of something American. At least not cheap

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 20 Dec 2004 3:46 am

i think you will find most of the most signifigant inventions, products, and ideas made were made by people of European desent, be it here or in Europe, it makes no difference to me. Promat should be applauded, I hope they make many guitars. The push pull (aside from a few limited reissues) isn't being made and is highly sought after, what can be wrong with making something that people want and can't be bought new otherwise. I give them credit for reproducing the ultimate tone steel (IMHO). Will all the steel makers suffering sales because of Promat please chime in. What is sad though that some products that flood our stores are made in Asia by forced labor and the profits go to that oppresive govt. Damir, next time we get some pictures from the Promat assembly site be sure to include the Communist AK47 armed "encouragers"...lol

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 20 Dec 2004 4:22 am

TB, there is nothing cheap about the Promat.
I played Damirs and looked under the hood.

A topshelf unit in all respects.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 20 Dec 2004 6:48 am

hey guys, you'd be surprised but labor in the EEC is more expensive than labor in the USA - really no foolin' !
Croatia is not yet in the EEC but be will soon enogh
i applaude Promat as well