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Topic: first fret string rattel |
George Wixon
From:
Waterbury, CT USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2004 4:34 pm |
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Need some help here. I'm trying to get a chord down on the first fret with a fairly wide string grip. The problem I'm having is that my middle finger in back of the bar dosen't seem to be able to mute the strings in back of the bar and I get some rattling going on. It seems like my middle finger is just to darn big to get in between the space of the tuning key and the room that's left from the roller nut and first fret where the bar is, to the back side of the bar where your fingers should be. It seems like a hit or miss type of thing. Some times I'll get it without rattle but most of the time I don't.
Any suggestions?
Thanks for the help.
George |
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Fred Justice
From:
Mesa, Arizona
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Posted 15 Dec 2004 5:11 pm
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George,what brand of PSG is it we are talking about here?
Now days a lot of pedal steel's have gauged rollers,meaning the depth of the groove the string sets in is gauged to the size string your on.If your guitar does not have gauged rollers then you may be getting string rattle from the strings not touching the bar evenly,this useualy happens only on the first fret,hope this helps.
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Fred Justice
Events Dir.
SWSGA www.swsteelguitar.com
[This message was edited by Fred Justice on 15 December 2004 at 05:19 PM.] |
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George Wixon
From:
Waterbury, CT USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2004 5:19 pm
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Fred,
This happens on both my Carter and Shobud. It seems to be just down on the first fret which to me would seem to be a technique problem. I have no problems from the second fret on up. It just seems like from the first fret there just isn't enough room behind the bar for the rest of my fingers to get a firm placement on the strings in back of the bar.
Neither guitar has gauged string rollers and that's a great suggestion but wouldn't I have the same problem on any of the frets if that were the problem?
George |
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Fred Justice
From:
Mesa, Arizona
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Posted 15 Dec 2004 5:25 pm
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George,after you get away from the first fret and on up the neck the strings are more evan across,however on the first fret you should not have to depend on your fingers behind the bar to mute the strings as a lot of players play lifting those fingers up anyway.
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Fred Justice
Events Dir.
SWSGA www.swsteelguitar.com
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2004 7:15 pm
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| String rattle on the 1st fret is a very common problem. Even with gauged rollers, unless you are using the same gauge strings that the rollers were set up for, you can get rattle. If you just lay the bar on the first fret with absolutely no pressure downward with your hand, then strum across the strings, and you hear rattle, then the strings are out of plane. Have you tried pressing down harder with the bar on the 1st fret to see if that will take care of the problem? |
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Billy Joe Bailey
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2004 8:53 pm
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I have to be real careful or I will get a string rattle from my fifth string.I have and 18 gauge on now
I wonder if I put a heaver gauged stringe on would that help??????
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 16 Dec 2004 5:32 am
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Before you guys start tinkering it might be a good idea to have a steel player that doesn't have 1st fret rattle problems play your steel. That way you can find out if its a guitar problem or just another one of those things you need to practice. There is no 1st fret rattle on even a Carter Starter or a Maverick when someone with decent bar control plays it.
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Bob
intonation help
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Ron !
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Posted 16 Dec 2004 6:06 am
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Bob is right guys.
Let some other player play the same steel.
And I have just one question.
What kind of steel bars are you using?
I am just curious.
Ron.
Nikaro SD10 4x6 |
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George Wixon
From:
Waterbury, CT USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2004 2:38 pm
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I guess I'm my own worse enemy. Old saying that goes "When all else fails, read the directions." I looked in my owners manual of the Carter and in the back there is a set up with the string gauges used when it was shipped. I changed string gauges on the 10th string from a 36w to a 38w and also on the 5th from a 17 to a 18. I layed this out in cad with the string sizes that it was shipped with and then put in the two sizes I changed and noted the difference. Every string that had clearence shown in the cad drawing had clearence with a straight edge layed accross the top of the strings. Bottom line is if I change these two strings to what the guitar was set up with, I think that will take care of my problem. So apparently the Carter does have gauged rollers and with this new info I probably have the same thing going on with the Shobud. I never thought it was the guitar and always me when ever I run into a problem.
George[This message was edited by George Wixon on 16 December 2004 at 02:39 PM.] |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2004 2:57 pm
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| Quote: |
| apparently the Carter does have gauged rollers |
They could be, but based on your tests, I don't think so. "Standard" string gauges increase gradually from high to low, except for strings 1-3. This will let the bar or other straight-edge lay flat across them. Using gauges that don't fit into that gradual ratio will cause "humps" that will produce rattle. Those "humps" are the reason that some manufacturers offer gauged rollers.
For your CAD layout to be valid would require knowing both the string gauges and the different depths of each gauged roller. |
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Billy Joe Bailey
From:
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2004 8:09 pm
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Getting back to my fifth string let me see if I can explain my self alittle more clearer.
When I pick the string open it's find.It is But somewhere in between a quater of pedal on A pedal, pulling on the B string, that you can hear it make noise. If you do not go on and engauge it all the way down, or just say your not paying atention and your foot kinda touchs A pedal the least little bit,well same old story I know lift your foot.
But what I guess I'm asking is where is the part of that fifth and A pedal thats smooths as silk, I need help thanks alot BJ
Ive got sense enough to know that my foot is't supose to ride on the a pedal,but to rock Smoothly of the B on to the A .
I want name the string but I thought well of them????
They are a name brand
Iwas told by another steelguitar plarer that I might try 20 gauge stringe????
Somebody mash down just alittle on that a pedtal an see if you get a rattle anywhere
thanks alot BJ
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[This message was edited by Billy Joe Bailey on 16 December 2004 at 08:38 PM.] |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2004 8:32 pm
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| Billy, if you're getting a rattle on your 5th string when you push your A pedal 1/4 of the way, it sounds like the nut roller for that string is the culprit. It may be out of round, have a burr on it, be too loose or tight in its slot, etc. |
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Jerry Warner
From:
Charleston, West Virginia, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2004 9:05 pm
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| get yourself a good mullen steel and you will not have this problem as to i have the same problem on a 67 p/p emmons at the first fret i don't know if its the strings or what, anyone else have this problem on a emmons but you can adjust w/ a little more presure, but i don't seem to have this problem on my mullen, so say you lets hear it, do most guitars have this problem or what. |
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