Is intonation easier with JI than with ET?

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 7 Dec 2004 9:10 am

David, like you, I have never been particulary offended by other musicians tuning problems.....heaven knows that I have enough of those problems of my own!

....but one thing I have always wondered about...when guitarists are re-tuning, why do they always tune the E's "up" and never "down"?

www.genejones.com

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 7 Dec 2004 9:46 am

Ah yes, Gene, the old upward creep of the guitar band. I don't know why this happens, but it seems to be universal. It may be that guitarists take more notice of a flat note, than a sharp note. Once any guitar player in the group hears any of his strings that might be a little flat, he tweaks it up. If he overshoots it a little, now other strings sound flat, so somebody tweaks another string up, and up we go. By the end of a long set, I might be playing dang near halfway up between the frets, and let's just hope I don't need to play anything open at the nut. Cheap electronic guitar tuners have greatly helped the problem. I don't try to embarass them by saying they have gone out of tune with me, I just tell them to check their tuner. By the 3rd set and a few free drinks, I don't care where they tune to, I got a movable capo in my left hand - I'll chase you down anywhere you go.

Bob Wood · Post by **Bob Wood** » 7 Dec 2004 11:17 am

Well guys, I believe that our ears, un-like our eyes, adjust to what we perceive as perfect. I use to work as a quality control inspector for a photo lab here on the west coast. After about a week of inspecting photos for color control, I would have to re-adjust my own perception of color by doing a simple comparison of a previously printed sample picture that we considered to be "true" in color. And, we would use the same photo, and negative every time to do our "comparison". There is just as many variables in your sight as there is in your hearing. What I'm saying is that you can train your ears to hear what you perceive as being "in tune"! So to those tuning to JI or to ET, will each perceive perfect tuning in either case! Now here is the kicker......! Last week..., I was practicing at my studio and had my guitar tuned to what I heard as being perfectly in tune. Just about that time, Bobby Black showed up! So, I stood up and and allowed Bobby to sit down at my Franklin. He started playing and sounded terribly out of tune. Remember..., I had just tuned up! I kept waiting for him to reach over and start turning the keys but he didn't! The only adjustments he made was on my C6th neck but that wasn't the neck that sounded "out-of-tune"! After he left, I sat down, and started to re-tune thinking that somewhere along the line some of the strings must've stretched out. As I started playing the separate stings and checking, I couldn't find one that was now out of tune!!! It sounds in tune when I sit and play it, but the minute I move from my seat, and let someone else play, the dang thing sounds out of tune with my ear???? I"m wondering..., what is up with that?

Bob

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 7 Dec 2004 12:44 pm

Bob, suppose you don't move from your seat, but record some of your playing. Now get up and listen to the play back. How does that sound? Does everyone else sound bad on your guitar? Maybe Bobby Black just wasn't used to the action, and so wasn't getting the pedals/levers fully engaged or something. Were you tuning straight up ET, or JI by-ear, or what?

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 8 Dec 2004 8:59 am

I don't think I have a strong opinion on this topic; or at least I don't think I do. CC

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 16 Dec 2004 8:19 am

If even tempered tuning is not just intonation, is it unjust intonation?

If just intonation tuning is not even tempered, is it ill-tempered?

I think I must tune to an ill-tempered unjust intonation. At least it always sounds that way.