Why a D10

Russell Adkins · Post by **Russell Adkins** » 20 May 2016 10:20 am

I see that on this forum there is alot of players that dont play the c6 neck but they still have a double neck guitar , just curious as to why a D10 ? is it to impress or maybe they want to learn the c6 but cant seem to get away from the e9? or maybe just having a D10 makes them feel better ,or maybe the double sounds better than a single? just curious . i myself am trying to learn both and to make thing simpler for me i chose to play a 12 string universal with a flip of a lever i can play either e9 or b6 or c6 moving up one fret . Russ

Jeff Harbour · Post by **Jeff Harbour** » 20 May 2016 11:07 am

I often wonder the same thing when I see guys with a 'loaded' guitar... 9 pedals, 9 knees... yet when they play, it's all E9 with only 3 levers, and maybe a fourth thrown in for one lick.

I personally play a D-10 with 8 & 5... and I use it ALL. I've considered the U-12 idea, but I have found that having two necks keeps my ideas fresh. I have to be more creative with an S-10.

Now, I know the U-12 is technically two necks... but my brain's perception doesn't see it the same way. It's all in the perception. Some players think better with separated necks... some think better with the tunings combined.

Jeff Harbour · Post by **Jeff Harbour** » 20 May 2016 11:22 am

Oh, to answer your question, my best guess is that the "E9 only" players who play a D-10 have it just in case the bandleader suddenly wants to do "Night Life" and "All My Ex's". Then, they can go home and learn them without having to wait two years for a new guitar!

Just my guess...

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 20 May 2016 11:50 am

The stepped construction of a D10 is a very strong shape, much less susceptible to "cabinet drop" than a single E9; you don't have to actually play the back neck to get that benefit. I play a uni 12 now. I would prefer to play the D10 for the reasons given above but I can't lift it into the car any more

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 20 May 2016 11:51 am

when i was starting in the early seventies i ended up with a great s10 p/p. a neat guitar .
but i always felt like half a player cause the real pros had d10s and played great stuff with them. so yeah...i wanted to be a complete player to my ability. i finally got a d10 and i'm glad i did and i wouldn't change anything. so the intimidation factor spurred me into becoming a better player. once you have the back neck, if you care, you will start picking stuff up.
if you don't care, you're carrying weight for vanity's
sake. so in essence, if i hadn't wanted to be cool, i'd be less of a player.

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 20 May 2016 12:07 pm

I just love the big fat chords on C6(B6). I have always loved Western swing but also love the high lonesome Nashville bright E9 like everyone does. Just made sense to get a D10. Can't imagine not playing back neck if I am sitting at a D10. Even when I do play a S10 I like to lower Es and sometimes think in B6 terms. Lloyd Green is master of this. Back neck is just fun. If you are not into it should probably not be dragging around a D10. SD 10 would do if you want stability of double body. I just find C6 to be very useful, esp for a jazz or swing type tune. Big fat sound. A good player can do it all on E9 I think. I was always fascinated with C6 pedals and chords. Mysterious, fat and dark voicings!

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 20 May 2016 12:07 pm

I just love the big fat chords on C6(B6). I have always loved Western swing but also love the high lonesome Nashville bright E9 like everyone does. Just made sense to get a D10. Can't imagine not playing back neck if I am sitting at a D10. Even when I do play a S10 I like to lower Es and sometimes think in B6 terms. Lloyd Green is master of this. Back neck is just fun. If you are not into it should probably not be dragging around a D10. SD 10 would do if you want stability of double body. I just find C6 to be very useful, esp for a jazz or swing type tune. Big fat sound. A good player can do it all on E9 I think. I was always fascinated with C6 pedals and chords. Mysterious, fat and dark voicings!

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 20 May 2016 12:08 pm

I just love the big fat chords on C6(B6). I have always loved Western swing but also love the high lonesome Nashville bright E9 like everyone does. Just made sense to get a D10. Can't imagine not playing back neck if I am sitting at a D10. Even when I do play a S10 I like to lower Es and sometimes think in B6 terms. Lloyd Green is master of this. Back neck is just fun. If you are not into it should probably not be dragging around a D10. SD 10 would do if you want stability of double body. I just find C6 to be very useful, esp for a jazz or swing type tune. Big fat sound. A good player can do it all on E9 I think. I was always fascinated with C6 pedals and chords. Mysterious, fat and dark voicings!

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 20 May 2016 12:31 pm

My assumption is you play what is required for the gig.

Sometimes no C6. Sometimes 3P/2k E9. Sometimes 9P/9K E9.

h

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 20 May 2016 1:22 pm

I've tried to get away from a D10 because I never, ever practice on the C6th neck. I've made peace with myself that I'll never be a serious C6th player. But it seems every band I work with has at least a couple songs that just don't sound right on the E9 neck. And the C6th neck certainly provides a different musical dimension, even with my limited knowledge and skills.

Steve Spitz · Post by **Steve Spitz** » 20 May 2016 1:37 pm

I learned C6 first, and struggled to learn E9. To each his own, but I need both necks, and the crowd really likes that C6 sound when it's called for. I couldn't imagine not having it, and I couldn't understand hauling it if I didn't use it.

I wished I played U12, that makes the most sense, to have both voicings, and those really fat chords. Bud Carter said to make the change , I'd have to lock my D10 away, and commit to the U12. I'm too lazy to give up what little game I've got and start over.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 20 May 2016 2:00 pm

A major reason for the dominance of the D-10 is that we are still in an era where the true greats of the instrument used... and still use... both necks to express themselves; Buddy Emmons, Jimmy Day, Hal Rugg, Weldon Myrick, John Hughey, Buck Reid, Paul Franklin and Tommy White, to name only a few of very many. A great part of the vocabulary and repertoire of the instrument is from the C6 tuning.

I can only think of a few devotedly single neck players that made great impact on the discipline; Lloyd Green, Jeff Newman, Curly Chalker, and Maurice Anderson. The SD10 concept is Lloyd's, and the popularization of the E9/B6 Universal was due to Jeff Newman.

So a fledgling steel player joins a band; he's just spent as little as required to get into the instrument, an S10. It's okay because the band only does straight Nashville classic country so the newbie isn't required to learn anything but, which is all he can handle at this point anyway. And so it goes with most cover band situations.

If more players were in environments that called for C6, there would be more players learning it. As it is, a lot of players delve into the tuning out of curiosity for the musical past, and of a desire to expand themselves. And use that extra 20 pounds of wood and metal they haul around every night.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 May 2016 3:13 pm

Which neck did Curly "singular devote" himself to?
He was amazing on E9th

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 May 2016 3:24 pm

My personal take is that the two necks tend to frame or foster a distinct line of thought. The intervals are quite similar between the two, but they FEEL different.
So we play different.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 May 2016 3:26 pm

I absolutely agree. His legacy is primarily C6th. But my lord, he couldn't half tear up the back neck

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 20 May 2016 3:26 pm

Lane Gray wrote:Which neck did Curly "singular devote" himself to?
He was amazing on E9th

I knew someone would bring that up,... (insert audible sigh)... just as I knew if I omitted Curly's predominance as a C6 player it would be mentioned as well.

Just as Lloyd Green was a fine C6 player, but that tuning is not what he's famous for.

Of course Curly was a great player regardless of tuning, but when someone says "play Chalker style," the great majority are talking about his C6 chops and tone. Or would you disagree?

Allan Kirby · Post by **Allan Kirby** » 20 May 2016 5:01 pm

In the 1970s and early 1980s, it was cool to have a D-10, because it looked serious on stage, especially if you were playing in a country band. I owned two D-10s during that period yet I was playing the E9th neck almost exclusively. I just felt I had to have the big guitar for people to take me seriously. In retrospect, I think I played the big guitars just for the show and to feed my ego.

I stopped playing steel for almost 20 years to focus on jazz guitar and other music ventures. In 2012, I returned to playing steel and purchased a well-used single-neck Sho-Bud (model# 6309) with 3 pedals, and three levers. I found this guitar provided me everything that I needed to play country, folk/rock, and jazz with an E9th tuning, plus it was much easier to move around.

The guitar's appearance didn't matter anymore to me. The Sho-Bud S-10 worked for me so I took my Fulawka D-10 out of storage and sold it along with a Fulawka SD-10 that felt too big and I hated the pad. I then added a nice GFI (Expo X1) S-10 and an Emmons GS-10.

I don't notice cabinet drop when I play my single neck guitars and I don't feel restricted. I realize that great players fully utilize the two necks. I am not a great player. However, I am a journeyman that works regularly with a variety of bands and music styles. I don't miss my D-10 guitars at all and actually feel I am a better player since resuming my steel guitar career on a single neck.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 May 2016 3:33 am

well I seriously doubt people are carrying around a loaded D10 just to impress others. If players are not playing any C6th, who cares, I know I don't. If players are only playing E9th with 2 or 3 levers and not taking advantage of other available pulls which they may have, then to me thats a bigger question. Those other E9th pulls allow for being creative as you go and as Herb says above with regard to C6th necks, , allows for a different expression.

I would ask E9th players who carrying around 4 or 5 levers with some very nice extended pulls why they are not using them and only sticking to 2 or maybe 3.

Yes , true ,some players may use bar slants or play similar phrases in different fret board positions but that doesn't do anything for the position you are in at the moment. It's not one or the other..it's BOTH.

but, thats just me.

Dale Rottacker · Post by **Dale Rottacker** » 21 May 2016 8:40 am

When I started out, like Chris I wanted a D10 cause they looked cool, and I was really drawn to all that great stuff that Buddy was playing on C6th, and Iâ€™ve always loved swing and Jazz... That said, after learning a few songs on C6th I was never able to really transfer what Iâ€™d learned on one song to another... Some sort of mental block... And not that I fully understand E9th, but somehow E9th was easier for me to see and understand and the grips more natural... I donâ€™t know why... When I got this last guitar I have, I really considered getting an extended 12 string E9th, and came within a twitch of pulling the trigger on a really nice one... but always in the back of my mind, I keep thinking â€œONE DAYâ€ and so instead of an S12, I got another pretty loaded D10 8x9... and hopefully, â€œONE DAYâ€ hopefully before I die, Iâ€™ll dedicate more than just the few songs Iâ€™ve learned to a deeper understanding of C6th, that neck that makes little sense to me compared to E9th... Like I said, Iâ€™m really drawn to that sound, and yet right now, I keep discovering new things on E9th that seem to consume the bulk of my time.

Larry Lenhart · Post by **Larry Lenhart** » 21 May 2016 9:15 am

I just got my Mullen D10 and am so glad that I have the C6th neck available again, after playing a single neck for a few months. To me, its the sound that draws me to C6th, those rich chords just cant be duplicated on E9th, again, to my ears anyway. Altho a person playing at a gig might use the E9th tuning more often, I spend more time playing at home for my own amusement and entertainment, and just love the sound of the C6th. Usually someone will call a western swing tune at a dance, and having that C6th neck makes it nice to have. I love both necks. Actually currently I am working on easy listening "standards", Misty, I Left My Heart in San Fran, etc and enjoy playing them on both necks and hearing the differences...they both sound good, but different. Just my 2 cents worth.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 21 May 2016 9:15 am

I have gotten some good mileage in using quotes here on the forum from an article by Robbie Fulks some years ago on Lloyd Green in The Journal Country Music and why he went to Shot Jackson to have him remove the hardware for the back neck of his Sho-Bud in the early '70s resulting in the first guitar with a pad, the original LDG.

Obviously there are only a handful of members here who have a "session book" anywhere near as full with jobs as did Lloyd Green when he was a full time player. He decided hauling the extra neck around, to him - wasn't worth it.

"I played sessions in suits up until the late 60's, and the C6 neck would unravel the sleeves of my coat. Well I went to my book and counted 595 sessions on the E9 neck in the preceding 12 months. In other words, in my last six hundred sessions, I could only account for five on the C6. So in 1973, I went to Sho-Bud and talked to Shot Jackson about the idea of changing my rear neck to a pad." Six pedals and other parts from the little used neck were put in a plastic bag and weighed in at 18 pounds. The resulting design of the LDG model, with its black Naugahyde pad over an absent fretboard, aims to preserve the double-neck's tone benefits, while eliminating entirely its high-tensile coat abraders, or "strings."

Reduced, on the face of it, to half of the musical hardware of most of his peers, Green proceeded to play all shades of country-including western swing (ironically) on his first post neck removal session for Danny Davis-with a single tuning. "Most (swing) players think you're impotent on E9," Green says. "You can play anything you want on E9. The problem lies in avoiding THINKING. You don't have to think as much with more pedals, more necks, more redundancy." He uses pre-pedal era slants to achieve subtle effects at a tight-rope walker risk level most players would just as soon not assume."

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 21 May 2016 10:23 am

Lloyd also tells elsewhere that the first session call he got after Shot removed the C6 neck was for a Western Swing album with Danny Davis and the Nashville Brass!!

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 21 May 2016 10:34 am

I started out on a S-10 E9 guitar. Bought a D-10 so I could start learning all the cool C6 stuff I was hearing. Learned some of that cool C6 stuff; but, didn't really need any of it for the bands I played in. Finally switched to an E9/B6 S-12 Universal. That way, just in case, I could still have all those cool sixth licks ready. It never happened. It was fun to fool around with at home; but, there was never any need for it on the bandstand. Sold my two E9/B6 guitars and now have two S-10's and just love them. My skinny arms and weak back love them. I'm having fun discovering all the neat things that can be done on a 10-string E9 guitar.

More importantly, it's all I need for the style of music our band plays.

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 21 May 2016 10:57 am

It really amazes me the number of D10 players I meet who say they never play the C6 neck or who tell me they have no idea how to play it. I wonder if they even bother to to tune it.

I play a S10 now but still love my multi-neck non-pedal Fenders so I divide my gigs and sessions into one or the other category.

I'm not a big fan of the sound of C6 pedal on old country (Hank style and similar) or western swing so I don't see myself hankering for a D10

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 21 May 2016 11:50 am

While I'm not a great C6th picker, I do love to play it when the song calls for it as best I can. I have an S10 and do use it for gigs when it looks like it'll be the way to go, but when I go to AZ, I always take my D10.

Geo