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Topic: Going from 4 knees to 6, need some ideas |
Dave Hayes
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 12:01 pm |
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I have been playing a 3 x 4 LDG for many, many years. Finally, i am thinking about getting a new guitar, This will have 6 knees, (2 verticals). I am thinking of dropping the B's to Bb on one, but have no idea what to do with the other. I am looking for Ideas and reasoning on what to do. Got a better idea than the B to Bb thing? Love to hear that also. Thanks much , everyone. 
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"From good to Better, To BEST, Play to Express"
1974 Sho-Bud Lloyd Green, Peavey Nashville 400,(or Yamaha G100 with 15 Altec) Phil Petillo Solid Body Electric. |
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 3:50 pm
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I raise 1 + 2 and lower 6 with a vert. Works better than the RKL for me.
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Bill |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 6:03 pm
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I love the vertical raise, on 1 and 2, the version on my guitar, also raises the 7 string F# to G#, (raise 1,2 and 7 !!); When I first stumbled on it I felt like it was a portal to another dimension. Big thumbs up for those raises on the chromatics. I have those raises on the left vertical, and I have the X pedal (B to Bd lower) on the floor. My G# to F# lower is on the RKL.
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Last edited by Richard Alderson on 30 Apr 2016 9:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 10:29 pm
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| If I was going to have 6 knee levers for E9, I would not have two verticals, I'd have two LKL's, one LKV, one LKR, one RKL and one RKR. Physically, I find having a "front" and a "rear" LKL the least challenging way to go beyond 3 levers on the left knee (as Jimmie Crawford said, for the "front" LKL, "just poke your knee in a little more"). And I am very leery of trying to make a right knee vertical work with the volume pedal. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 11:01 pm
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What Brint said.
I've tried staggered levers on both right knee levers, really messed up my usually stable volume pedal work. I have staggered LKL's, and on my new Zum S12 ext E9, will have staggered LKR's as well. We'll see how well that works. String 5 B lowers a half on my single LKV.
I would advise against a vertical on the right side, again for ergonomic reasons and to avoid ruining your volume pedal work.
Another point against dual verticals on one knee, as pointed out to me by Bruce Zumsteg: to make them usable, your hanging knee levers have to be more widely spaced than normal, which will make them slower to get to. Ugh.
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▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 12:32 am
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what are your 4 knee lever pulls right now ?
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 7:58 am
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| John McClung wrote: |
What Brint said.
I've tried staggered levers on both right knee levers, really messed up my usually stable volume pedal work. I have staggered LKL's, and on my new Zum S12 ext E9, will have staggered LKR's as well. We'll see how well that works. String 5 B lowers a half on my single LKV.
I would advise against a vertical on the right side, again for ergonomic reasons and to avoid ruining your volume pedal work.
Another point against dual verticals on one knee, as pointed out to me by Bruce Zumsteg: to make them usable, your hanging knee levers have to be more widely spaced than normal, which will make them slower to get to. Ugh. |
I agree fully John, not that my agreement matters, but I have a hard enough time with RKL and RKR by themselves... my RKR raises both 1st and 2nd and lowers the 6th... this is probably the hardest one for me to use without messing with the volume pedal, maybe better adjustment would help... the RKR which feels heavier doesn’t seem to be an issue, but if I had a vertical over there, I’m pretty sure I’d have all sorts of mental and physical adjustments to make, and I don’t think I’m that good. 
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Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
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*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
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https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Dave Hayes
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 10:06 am Guys, this is all super stuff - thank you all Very much.
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Lots to think about here. Maybe the right side vertical is not the best plan, maybe 5 is enough, or do i hand two off the left knee?
I saw a guitar on the MSA website that had 10 Knees...
It's incredible.. It's a legend... 8 pedals 10 knees.. good god.....
_________________
"From good to Better, To BEST, Play to Express"
1974 Sho-Bud Lloyd Green, Peavey Nashville 400,(or Yamaha G100 with 15 Altec) Phil Petillo Solid Body Electric. |
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Dave Hayes
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 10:09 am * Tony Prior.. Great Question, i should have mentioned that
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LKL - E to F
LKR - G string G# to F#
RKL - Lower the E's
RKR 2nd (no 9 string ) string only double stop D and C#
_________________
"From good to Better, To BEST, Play to Express"
1974 Sho-Bud Lloyd Green, Peavey Nashville 400,(or Yamaha G100 with 15 Altec) Phil Petillo Solid Body Electric. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 12:04 pm
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What Brint said;
" Physically, I find having a "front" and a "rear" LKL the least challenging way to go beyond 3 levers on the left knee (as Jimmie Crawford said, for the "front" LKL, "just poke your knee in a little more")."
I lower my 6th string with the lever toward the front. Zoom in.
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Dr. Z Surgical Steel amp, amazing!
"74 Bud S-10 3&6
'73 Bud S-10 3&5(under construction)
'63 Fingertip S-10, at James awaiting 6 knees
'57 Strat, LP Blue
'91 Tele with 60's Maple neck
Dozen more guitars!
Dozens of amps, but SF Quad reverb, Rick Johnson cabs. JBL 15, '64 Vibroverb for at home.
'52 and '56 Pro Amps |
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Dave Hayes
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 4:11 pm Move 6 string G# lower
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This is a good idea. If I offload that change, which is pretty, but I dont use often, it would free up a knee
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"From good to Better, To BEST, Play to Express"
1974 Sho-Bud Lloyd Green, Peavey Nashville 400,(or Yamaha G100 with 15 Altec) Phil Petillo Solid Body Electric. |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 5:38 pm
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Don't
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'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Dave Hayes
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 7:11 pm Ok. So where do I put the B -> Bb?
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So many changes, so little time
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"From good to Better, To BEST, Play to Express"
1974 Sho-Bud Lloyd Green, Peavey Nashville 400,(or Yamaha G100 with 15 Altec) Phil Petillo Solid Body Electric. |
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Patrick Ickes
From:
Upper Lake, CA USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 9:03 pm
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If you're going to do verts, they should be on your left side. Also, they should compliment a pedal being pressed down. Otherwise, you would have to raise your hip/thigh joint to make the change. When you have a pedal stomped, you just raise your heel up.
Patrick |
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Tiny Olson
From:
Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY
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Posted 1 May 2016 11:40 am
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I have 5 levers on my left knee for E9th. Emmons pedal setup. I lower "B" to "Bb" (strings 5 & 10) w/ LL front. Been doing that for about 40 yrs. now. I find it way more
comfortable than having that change on the vertical.
I agree with John Billings and Jimmie Crawford... I find it easier to move my knee forward for the front LL lever than raising my leg for the vert.
Chris "Tiny" O. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 May 2016 12:48 am Re: * Tony Prior.. Great Question, i should have mentioned t
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| Dave Hayes wrote: |
LKL - E to F
LKR - G string G# to F#
RKL - Lower the E's
RKR 2nd (no 9 string ) string only double stop D and C# |
Before changing to a guitar with 6 levers, why not add the following pulls to the 4 you already have ? You are missing some very fundamental pulls right now.
Add either the 6 lower or 7 raise to your LKR, me, I have had them both but prefer 6 Lower. Also add the 2nd string raise to this same lever.
add the 9th string lower to RKR
there's 3 pulls you can add right now which will enhance your music for a very long time.
You are missing some very fundamental pulls right now, add them before you step up , get familiar with them then decide to step up, or not.
I have also had the 5th lever X, B to Bb on my Steels for years, now I don't. I don't actually miss it.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Tim Russell
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 2 May 2016 2:42 am
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| Quote: |
LKL - E to F
LKR - G string G# to F#
RKL - Lower the E's
RKR 2nd (no 9 string ) string only double stop D and C# |
With that setup, I would adjust mine as;
RKR - add the 7th F# - G, and 9th lower. It works well for my current setup and you don't "trip" over other strings with those changes.
Also, as Tony mentioned, I used to lower 5/10, (LV) but not currently, but I can easily get that by sliding the bar back a fret. I know, there are some other licks that are missed by not having that change, and I may add it back in sometime in the future, but I'm good without it for now.
I'm also a fan of the 1 & 2 raise, I would see if I could incorporate that into the setup as has been previously mentioned. Mine is on my RKL at present, but I believe it would be better suited on the LV in my case.
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Sierra Crown D-10 |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 May 2016 7:06 am
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many offering excellent options, but I think the big picture is, you have 4 levers, 2 of which are NOT being used to the max configuration, why not add pulls to those 2 levers before stepping up ?
That LDG is a great Steel, you may very well get another fine Instrument but at the end of the day it won't be better than the LDG, just different !
Unless of course you just want a different Steel, then all of the above doesn't much matter !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 3 May 2016 8:43 am Re: Going from 4 knees to 6, need some ideas
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| Dave Hayes wrote: |
| I am looking for Ideas. |
I would add the pulls that you wish for when you are actually playing your current guitar. In other words, as you play, don't you sometimes say to yourself: "Self, I wish I could make this string go up (or down) right now." ? |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 4 May 2016 5:14 pm Re: Going from 4 knees to 6, need some ideas
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| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
I would add the pulls that you wish for when you are actually playing your current guitar. In other words, as you play, don't you sometimes say to yourself: "Self, I wish I could make this string go up (or down) right now." ? |
More often than I want to admit!
EDIT: I don't have it, but 1&2 raise is cool and lower 5 would be nice, buuutttt I would get the current levers doing a little more.
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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