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Topic: Hawaiian vibrato help? |
Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 5:20 am |
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Late-period Bechet (when he was a permanent resident) in France is THE stuff! Especially the record he did with the French-Algerian bebop pianist Martial Solal's quartet. Such assurance, power and that take-no-prisoners vibrato!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rgaBWSDgiE
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Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 7:46 am
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| It was touched on above but I believe the reason vibrato slowed down with the advent of electrified instruments was because it wasn't needed as much. The reason for the rapid vibrato with acoustic instruments was to increase the sustain. With the aid of a foot volume, you could increase the sustain via that means on an electric guitar. |
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Wally Pfeifer
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 9:36 am
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 We can probably do without the crude comments from Niehaus & Kerr on this subject.
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 9:48 am
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That's Mr. Niehaus.
My friends call me Erv. |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 10:45 am
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| Wally Pfeifer wrote: |
We can probably do without the crude comments from Niehaus & Kerr on this subject.
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I'm too poor to have a first name and don't have any friends. |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 10:52 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| It was touched on above but I believe the reason vibrato slowed down with the advent of electrified instruments was because it wasn't needed as much. The reason for the rapid vibrato with acoustic instruments was to increase the sustain. With the aid of a foot volume, you could increase the sustain via that means on an electric guitar. |
Yes, this is interesting to me, because we have a case where the mechanics of the instrument are driving technique, or at least opening up possibilities in technique not musically practical before.
I chose the Annie Kerr recording as an example because she could not have been but a few years removed from acoustic guitar, yet that slow, wide vibrato was likely not something she was doing before. (Though I'm speculating) |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 11:17 am
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Scott,
I also believe that if the old Hawaiian players would have had pedals and levers like us, they would have used them to enhance their technique when playing.  |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 12:00 pm
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| Steffen Gunter wrote: |
| The (for me) too wide vibrato of e.g. the '56 Sleep Walk recording of Santo Farina sounds, ah, different (don't wanna struggle with the Santo & Johnny Fans) |
Something that Santo did that I like is that he would often continue to apply vibrato after the note had decayed and make a sort of sizzling, metallic, steel against string sound that made the recording sound very immediate, or "present". |
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Wally Pfeifer
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 3:44 pm
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 Sorry, Mister Niehaus.
And,-Mister James Kerr,- I assume you or any of your friends or family are not afflicted with Parkinson's Disease. A bad attempt at humor.  |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 5:50 am
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| Andy Volk wrote: |
Late-period Bechet (when he was a permanent resident) in France is THE stuff! Especially the record he did with the French-Algerian bebop pianist Martial Solal's quartet. Such assurance, power and that take-no-prisoners vibrato!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rgaBWSDgiE |
Great link Andy, I really like to take other instruments and singers into account when talking about vibrato. Another topic is the vibrato speed, in the german wikipedia it is said that a overall well received vibrato has a rate between 4.5 to 8 Hz, question is: is a good vibrato always in time with the music ? For example a vibrato in 16th note in a tempo of 80 bpm equals a vibrato speed of 5.3 Hz, that is in the 'comfort zone' of 4.5 till 8 Hz. So, do the great players always chose a note value that brings them into this comfort zone ?
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https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 6:45 am
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I think that the vibrato should reflect the tempo subdivided as the player deems necessary. Let's say on a ballad, one can have the choice of moving the bar in sixteenth notes or even eighth note triplets.
I use Frank Sinatra as my guide. I learned how to delay the application of vibrato in my singing by listening intently to Frank and then myself, and I always found the vibrato to sound much better delayed. Not always the case with steel guitar notes, but if going for a vocal sound, I delay it slightly.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 7:05 am
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Not into waveforms and hertz? Here's a perspective on vibrato from a reviewer on the Gramophone classical music website:
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| If it is annoying then it is too much vibrato, if it sounds too dry then it is not enough vibrato. |
_________________
Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 7:31 am
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| Vibrato should not be used going into a note, it should be used when leaving the note. |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 12:18 pm
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| Wally Pfeifer wrote: |
Sorry, Mister Niehaus.
And,-Mister James Kerr,- I assume you or any of your friends or family are not afflicted with Parkinson's Disease. A bad attempt at humor. |
Sorry I keep forgetting we live in a PC world now where people are easy offended.
JK. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 12:45 pm
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| We used to call that "thin skinned". |
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Colin Bolton
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 3:29 pm Hawaiian Vibrato
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| James Kerr wrote: |
| Wally Pfeifer wrote: |
We can probably do without the crude comments from Niehaus & Kerr on this subject.
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I'm too poor to have a first name and don't have any friends. |
Aw come on James you got 1
Colin. |
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Steve Marinak
From:
Man O War Cay, Abaco, Bahamas
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 5:56 pm
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Wow, hot topic!
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Steve Marinak |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 1:20 am Re: Hawaiian Vibrato
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| Colin Bolton wrote: |
| James Kerr wrote: |
| Wally Pfeifer wrote: |
We can probably do without the crude comments from Niehaus & Kerr on this subject.
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I'm too poor to have a first name and don't have any friends. |
Aw come on James you got 1
Colin. |
Thank you Colin, I will treasure that support, some people here think I don't know what it is to suffer, but I do, I'm married to a woman.
JK |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 21 Dec 2017 10:30 am
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| Scott Thomas wrote: |
Something that Santo did that I like is that he would often continue to apply vibrato after the note had decayed and make a sort of sizzling, metallic, steel against string sound that made the recording sound very immediate, or "present". |
My favorite vibrato right now, although it doesn't win any awards for understated subtlety, is Andy Iona's, and he does something similar to the above in Carefree:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzLSRu7K5pk
Basically the line that starts each chorus, "Care-free, as the birds in..." He goes down to the (I think, not in front of a guitar) D for "free" and lets that note decay with that constant vibrato. You hear it shift up to Eb on beat 1 of the next measure, but the note is struck on beat 2, so there's this quavering, almost audible sound, full of anticipation (around 0:25, 1:10, and 2:05).
I totally get the previous comment about how a person might be able to tell McIntire, Iona, and Byrd from a single note. Some of them certainly had a unique voice! For Jerry Byrd, I used to think that his playing had a bit of a country accent, but now I realize that country steel has a Jerry Byrd accent . |
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Mike A Holland
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 21 Dec 2017 10:49 am
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| That is just fantastic Nic. If ever there was a reason to want to play lap steel guitar it is that music clip........I am inspired again! |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 21 Dec 2017 12:44 pm
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iI always thought Buffy Saint Marie had the worst vibratro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wgZmVvs-Xk
Talk about a goat singing
_________________
Rose D13 tuning: Cabinet by J.R. Rose with mechanics engineered by Darvin Willhoite.
Williams D10 9x9.
Mullen Pre-RP D10 8x5. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 21 Dec 2017 1:33 pm
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Yes! Buffy is up there at the top ranking of the goat rodeo rankings.
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Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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