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Topic: Recording stereo vs recording mono, then converting it? |
Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 6:53 pm |
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| I'm in the market for a USB Interface to record pedal steel, but I'm not sure whether to get one with 2 inputs or 4 inputs. One of the inputs will be used for a vocal mic. I will be running a Sennheiser e609 straight to the interface. Would there be more benefit to splitting that XLR cable and using two channels in the interface as opposed to using my "mono to stereo" plug-in in Cubase 6? If it does the same thing, I'm not sure I want to spend the extra $$$ for more inputs than I'll use... |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 7:40 pm
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| A mono to stereo plugin really can't replicate true stereo recording...it's sort of like trying to increase the resolution of a photograph...data can always be removed, but not added back. I record in stereo some--not always, but the extra capability was well worth it. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 7:48 pm
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David I am using a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 USB interface with Cubase Essentials 8 and I take a stereo feed out of my rack box (wet and dry) and use the 2 inputs for stereo steel - (records to 2 separate tracks). Mind you I don't use a vocal mike - I'm just doing steel overdubs. SO if you want to use a mic as well I suggest you look at a unit that has 4 inputs - that way you can record your steel in stereo as well as maintaining the mic input. Although I presume you won't be using the mic at the same time as your recording steel ??
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 7:59 pm
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Thanks for the replies! Do you typically use a mono-to-stereo XLR adapter on one microphone, or do you use two mics for two channels? I was reading about another idea of going direct-in on one channel, and micing the other channel.... looks like I have some experimenting to do
Last edited by Dave Stroud on 26 Apr 2016 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 2:26 am
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A 4 channel (one with 4 preamps, not just 4 inputs) is needed if you want to input two (stereo) channels from the guitar. You can simulate stereo with the DAW but its not the same.
I always input separate channels to my DAW if I'm recording a stereo input.
There are recording interface units that are bus powered (from the USB port) but I prefer those that have their own power supply. Depending on the PC and what power is available for the USB ports it could potentially overload the USB bus and you have problems.
I just happen to have a Steinberg UR44 (4 channel) unit for sale on the forum, at a great price. It interfaces perfectly with Cubase.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=300557 |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 5:56 am
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| David Stroud wrote: |
| Do you typically use a mono-to-stereo XLR adapter on one microphone, or do you use two mics for two channels? |
Two mics, two channels. No point normally in running one mic into two channels unless you are using different equipment, such as external mic preamps, in each channel. Otherwise, you just have two channels of the same sound. |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 7:59 am
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That makes sense having two different mics for stereo. It's not the best room and I plan to have a Sennheiser e609 right on the amp... any ideas for a second mic/ mic position?
Do they sell interfaces that have one channel with two inputs? I'm a bit confused on that, why wouldn't each input have its own channel? I've been looking at the Presonus 44VSL.
That looks like a nice one Jack, but I'm hoping to find a good deal on something used with a lower retail value (if I can help it).
Last edited by Dave Stroud on 27 Apr 2016 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 8:06 am
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| Just updated my signature so you can see what I'm running, if it helps... |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 9:14 am
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| The one I have for sale, is "future proof". We always only "need" X number of inputs but then later we want to hook up a drum machine and whatever and find out there isn't enough inputs. So its off to buy a unit with more ports. Buy now and you won't have to upgrade in the future. |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 9:46 am
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| Jack, I currently only need 3 inputs. One for vocals and two for the steel. I run cubase w/ plug-ins and can always update those plug ins if I'm looking for a different sound, so I don't foresee the need for a drum machine or anything else external. I feel like one extra input than what I need will be sufficient for at least the next few years. I'm hoping to find a used Audiobox 44VSL for ~$150. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 10:33 am
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| According to what I saw posted on a recording forum, Presonus has stopped supporting VSL devices (no new drivers). Thus I would buy something, whether its what I'm selling or some other brand, that is a current production unit and supported for new OS' such as Win 10 and latest Apple OS. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 12:42 pm
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David,
Inputs are on the interface, channels are on the recorder. You assign interface inputs to channels on the recorder. If you have an 8 input interface you could, should you wish, assign all 8 to the same recorder channel.
A stereo track on a recorder uses TWO tracks , sometimes separately, sometimes they are grouped together so they can use a single FADER. But two interface inputs will be required or a true interface stereo input , regardless , the inputs have to be assigned to the recorder track, mono or stereo.
One of the most common configurations these days is a DAW recorder which allows maybe 256 tracks, but yet the user only has a two input interface. He or she reassigns the interface inputs to different DAW channels as required.
What you are wanting to do will require a 4 input interface as I don't think anybody offers a 3 channel interface... You can also accomplish the same mono to stereo trick by using an on-board stereo delay on your recorder ( DAW) tweaked to your liking, by just using the mono track. There are many ways to accomplish this in the digital world without recording a second track as a quasi stereo track.
Copy your mono Steel track and paste it into another new mono track. Pan the original about 15 or 20 L , shift the second one ever so slightly in time,(to your liking) pan that track 80R with a much lower fader level .
Bingo, Stereo ! BIG stereo field with a slight time delay.
but, there are no rules so have fun ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 7:34 pm
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Tony, that sounds like an idea I definitely need to try! I was about to go to bed, but now my mind is busy thinking of different possibilities  Thanks for all the help. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 12:24 am
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| Dave Stroud wrote: |
| Tony, that sounds like an idea I definitely need to try! I was about to go to bed, but now my mind is busy thinking of different possibilities Thanks for all the help. |
Well David I didn't invent it, it's old school ! Works extremely well in some applications, overkill in others.The trick is of course to shift the second track ever so slightly in "time" . Experiment..
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Bryan Daste
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 12:53 am
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There's no point splitting a mono mic signal to two different inputs - it's not stereo. Just the same mono sound, twice. Record in mono if that's all you need!
_________________
http://pedalsteelpodcast.wordpress.com |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 3:48 am
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Bryan, even "true stereo" starts with a mono source.
You can pan it off-center (with a touch of delay in the quieter channel) for an illusion of spatial orientation, or get a little wacky with other processing.
But I get you. A lot of people say they "want stereo" without a concrete idea of what they want to do with the stereo imaging.
In the absence of a vision, the niftiest tools will fail to produce a magical result.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 8:11 am
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| Dale, that sounds great! Will copying and pasting a mono track give the same results as splitting a mono signal and recording into two inputs? either way it just comes out to be two tracks of the exact same thing, right? |
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Dave Stroud
From:
Texas
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 8:14 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
In the absence of a vision, the niftiest tools will fail to produce a magical result. |
Yup, that's me. Absence of true vision, just want it to sound GOOD  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 11:01 am
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| Dave Stroud wrote: |
| Dale, that sounds great! Will copying and pasting a mono track give the same results as splitting a mono signal and recording into two inputs? either way it just comes out to be two tracks of the exact same thing, right? |
The only other way to get stereo is to have two different sources (such as special pickups that send some strings to one side and some to the other). It all comes down to what you do with it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Chris Grigsby
From:
Boulder, CO
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Posted 28 Apr 2016 10:03 pm
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If you are new to recording I would advise you start with a simple mono recording of your PSG amp. There are tons of great reverb plug-ins that will let you dial in the amount of space and ambience that you require depending on where you want the track to sit in the mix. If you happen to be recording in a really nice sounding room and really want to capture that, by all means, throw up a room mic, but if you are just recording at home in an untreated room, then I wouldn't bother.
If you want a very natural and realistic sounding microphone, ribbon microphones are your friend. I highly recommend the AEA Nuvo N22.
_________________
Mullen Discovery S10, Hilton VP, Kemper Profiler Head and Kabinet. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 1:34 am
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| Dave Stroud wrote: |
| Dale, that sounds great! Will copying and pasting a mono track give the same results as splitting a mono signal and recording into two inputs? either way it just comes out to be two tracks of the exact same thing, right? |
NO...Touch of delay on second track to put space between them...panned opposite directions...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 29 Apr 2016 4:46 am
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Since you are just getting started I would go real simple for now.
Get a sound you like coming out of the amp. Make sure the sound is something you are happy with including reverb, delay or whatever.
Record 1 mono track by putting the mic in front of the amp. Experiment getting a good sound by trying the mic out in different places.
Look up "recording electric guitar mic placement" if you are not sure where to start.
Skip everything else until you can get a decent sound this way.
this is how 90% of all professional recorded steel is done in my experience.
Once you get this part together you can start experimenting with all the other stuff. If you can't get a decent sound in the first place all the rest is a waste of time.
_________________
Bob |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 12:53 am
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true , but it doesn't sound like Dave is just starting out as he never said so, he's asking for tips on splitting a signal,recording in stereo or perhaps creating a stereo image . This is a good conversation.
But I would agree, there is no reason to record a mono signal across two tracks, the end result would be two tracks exactly the same . Add some DAW wizardry / processing and create the "quasi" stereo image from the mono track.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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