What Do You Think of Jerry Garcia's PSG Work?

[Dave Hopping]

Jerry wasn't a bad steel player-for a six string folk-rocker, and he should be recognized for putting steel guitar in front of a lot of folks who didn't realize until that moment how much they liked it.He brought in a lot of new fans and players,but didn't have much influence on the existing country music/steel guitar community and there was little if any demand for his playing on established country artists' recordings.Buddy,Curly,Moon,Lloyd,and the rest of the greats likely didn't worry about Jerry taking over their accounts.

[Henry Matthews]

Jerry has some great chops in this cut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SynF5nOqudk

[Joachim Kettner]

My relation with the Dead has not been consistant. I've seen them play live in '71 and years later. I was in Phoenix, AZ to learn how to build guitars and they played a mile ago from where I was staying and I was not visiting and that I'll always regret. I've had a few records but sold them. I'm a hopeless case.

[Dustin Rigsby]

It doesn't have to be a technical marvel to be pretty. What he played on TYC fit the bill. I always liked that song...evidently a lot of other people did too, it was a top 20 billboard hit ! I wished I sucked as much as Jerry Garcia did so I could have the honor to have played on a hit song ! Give the guy a break already ! I've seen this thread beat to death over the years. Garcia's PSG work absolutely inspired future steel players. The same with Sneaky Pete. By way of comparison, Angus Young of AC/DC is not the most technically proficient guitar player ever,but, he sure inspired THOUSANDS OF DISCIPLES,some of which went on to have HITS of their own !

[Ian Rae]

It is common for guitar players to have several axes on stage or in the studio. That Garcia included PSG was very brave and a testament to his musicianship. But those who were inspired by him to take it up may have been influenced more by the man that what he did with the machine. I got hooked by Buddy Emmons and Al Perkins.

(Don't get me wrong - some of my best friends were hippies... )

[Bob Grado]

At one time I used to post on Harmony Central, where the same question was asked. I wrote Garcia was a intermediate level player, and that he did a decent job on TYC, but if you want to hear a real steel player, listen to Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin, oe and/or Lloyd Green.

That's my story. Hearing Jerry play on Teach set the hook and later on Buddy on Rainbow Over Your Blues completely blew me away.

That's when this kid from Brooklyn became aware of the incredible talent that resided in Nashville.

I've been "hooked",thankfully, ever since.

[Bud Angelotti]

#6 - Tortured genius.
The fact that we are still discussing this after 45 years is a testament to Jerry's ability to tap into the universal forces that music unleashes into our subconscious.
Yeah I loved the dead. I saw 'em a few times when they sucked also.
They where not an act. They where real people that played music, sometimes not so hot, sometimes..WOW!

[Dave Ristrim]

I didn't read all the previous posts, but in a nut shell, for me, his playing helped bring me into the pedal steel player world. At the time I didn't care for country music but thought what he did on a few songs to be pretty interesting. Yes, I later grew past his limited technique and learned from the other "masters" but always have kept a place in my musical heart for his playing.

[Mark Eaton]

Let's keep this in perspective, in this, the 377th Garcia/pedal steel thread on the forum...just kidding, don't know how many there have been - but 300+ might not be too far off.

John Sebastian played harmonica on the title cut of the CSN & Y album Déjà Vu. i've never been on a harmonica forum - is Sebastian's harp playing on the song scrutinized like Garcia's steel playing on Teach Your Children?

Let's go back in history. The majority of the album was recorded an hour south of me at Wally Heider's in San Francisco in 1969. Some additional work was done at Heider's studio in Los Angeles.

The story goes that Garcia played the pedal steel part as a trade for getting tutoring for the Dead in harmony singing, where they were sorely lacking. it was a good trade. The following year the Dead released both Workingman's Dead and American Beauty, considered to be the high water marks of their studio albums. Both albums were devoid of "aimless noodling," so apparently The Dead didn't spend 100% of their time engaging in aimless noodling. Oh wait - whaddya know? Though I was never in the same league as some of my real hardcore Deadhead friends, I did attend ballpark 40-45 Dead concerts and probably almost as many Garcia Band and Kingfish shows. I guess that qualifies me to put the kibosh on the "nothing but aimless noodling" b.s.

So the harmonies in those two Dead studio albums from 1970 weren't in the same league as say CSN & Y and The Beach Boys, but they were pretty good.

I'm sure the whole thing with Garcia's steel part on Teach went down pretty casually. These guys were all hanging out together in San Francisco and Marin County in those days. Pretty unlikely that there were managers and lawyers and anything resembling heaven forbid, "negotiations."

No doubt most involved were stoked about the steel part. Otherwise, particularly at the L.A. location, if they hated it maybe someone could have called Jay Dee or Red Rhodes and have them in for a "do over."

Sometimes this stuff can get blown way out of proportion around here.

[Steven Husting]

According to Graham Nash the Dead we're recording nearby and they asked Jerry to play the part. After the first take Jerry said he could do better. Nash said he could do a second take if he wanted, but they were going to use the first anyway.

From memory from Nash' autobiography, so it may not be 100% accurate.

Steven

[John Booth]

Credit where credit due, Jerry did some nice blocking in those NRPS cuts. He was a little busy, but so was his guitar playing. I liked it.
JB

[Richard Sinkler]

This reminds me - I have family out in San Hose CA. Quite a few years ago I'd visit them while on biz trips. Whenever I got the chance I'd go to the Saddle Rack and watch and listen to the great Bobby Black.

Small world...I lived a couple miles away from The Saddle Rack from '78 to '96. Wonder if Jerry ever played there with the New Riders or one of his many solo bands?

Nope. Too bad he didn't.

[Tom Quinn]

What do you think of Dennis Montgomery's PSG work?

1) Never heard of him.
2) Never heard of him.
3) Never heard of him.
4) Never heard of him.
5) Never heard of him.
6) Other - Please explain

Those were great times by men who were just out of boyhood. Jerry was a really nice guy, genuine and humble. He borrowed my '54 Strat for some work on "American Beauty." I knew those cats pretty well and in later years played a lot will Billy Kreutzmann. Bob was a cool cat too. FWIW, I hate these types of Threads:




Guy Clark, Bob Weir, myself. Seated is Minor Wilson, legendary guitar tech in '60s San Francisco.

[Duane Reese]

Regarding option #4, if his playing is overrated, it wasn't really his fault. Seems to me that the average Deadhead probably hasn't really heard much other steel playing besides his or Jimmy Page's, let alone be able to name any other players.

Speaking of Page, I used to listen to the song That's the Way when I was a teenager, and even though his intonation isn't very good, what he does on that song is really tasteful. That said, my own steel playing was still a few years away, so that wasn't really much of an inspiration either. I needed the desire to do actual country music on steel to motivate me enough to take up the instrument.

[b0b]

What do you think of Tom Quinn's PSG work?

1) Who?
2) Who?
3) Who?
4) Who?
5) Who?
6) Other - Please explain
<hr>
Seriously, this is crap. You owe Dennis Montgomery an apology, Tom. No forum member should be treated like this.

[Bryan Staddon]

What is all this hoopla about ice cream? Some people like Cherry,some people like pistachio , some people even like their ice cream all mixed together ,everyone fighting and fighting,my kids are getting scared and upset! I just don't understand what's going to become of us I .... I .. ( what? What.? Oh Jerry not cherry.....Nevermind

[Charlie McDonald]

'Thank you, Rosanna Rosannadana.'

To post a serious view, the matter of praising the talented, that ancient steeler Lao Tzu mentioned.
Too much praise for the talented or notorious
casts aspersions on the talents of lesser mortals.
Neither the talented or less so benefit.

Thus quarrels arise however unintentioned or intended.
Too much Tommy White eventually promotes 'Who is he?'
We set them up to fall, like Jerry Garcia and Dennis Montgomery.

The Garcia work on TYC was up in the mix in that good sixties style. It did send a good sound out and marked many's memories.
To quote National Lampoon's Lemmings, 'The Grateful Dead are dead, and we're grateful.'
(and you can hear the announcer softly, 'Except for Jerry's fingers, they're still moving, all nine of them.')

[Mike Perlowin]

Let's keep this in perspective, in this, the 377th Garcia/pedal steel thread on the forum...

This is the first 377th thread on Garcia, There will be 377 more.

Let's face it. Garcia in more famous than any of us will ever be. It is only natural that people who are just now getting into the steel know, and are curious about him. Newbies are always going to bring him up.

The fact is, many of us are better steel players than he was. And there is more than a little resentment that he is so well known and we are not.

To which I say, we all would be better off trying to improve our playing than to obsess over Garcia's fame.

Now, if you will all kindly excuse me, I'm going to go practice.

[Mark Hershey]

Let's keep this in perspective, in this, the 377th Garcia/pedal steel thread on the forum...

This is the first 377th thread on Garcia, There will be 377 more.

Let's face it. Garcia in more famous than any of us will ever be. It is only natural that people who are just now getting into the steel know, and are curious about him. Newbies are always going to bring him up.

The fact is, many of us are better steel players than he was. And there is more than a little resentment that he is so well known and we are not.

To which I say, we all would be better off trying to improve our playing than to obsess over Garcia's fame.

Now, if you will all kindly excuse me, I'm going to go practice.

I think the reason why he's so heavily discussed is because baby boomer era music dominates the discussion of music. Look at the Rolling Stone top 500 list and it's bias towards boomer generation era music.

In 2012 the last time they made the list the 'youngest' album of the bunch to make the top 10 list is the Clash album London Calling which came out in 1979. What about the last 37 years and all the incredible music to come out?

The only jazz artists mentioned in the top 500 is Ornette Coleman, Miles Davis, and John Coltrane. All three have connections to 60's rock and were cited as influences. No mention of Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, or any jazz artist in the last 40 years on the list.

I like Jerry's playing a lot, and think he should be shown the respect he deserves. I was more inspired and drawn into the steel by later steel players on indie rock records, and that caused me to look back and learn about Jerry, Lloyd, Don Helms, etc. Laur Joamet was on tv playing the steel the other week, lets hope he can be this generations 'Jerry Garcia' and draw new players in.

[Joachim Kettner]

What about the last 37 years and all the incredible music to come out?

Good point Mark. I guess at my age, after hearing thousands of records, I'm kind of full. This song is from 2012, I've read about in a music magazine.
The singer is Graig Finn, steel by Rickie Ray Jackson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ4IhWIA0Lo

[David Mason]

#6. There's a couple of "confusing" factors - one is, NRPS were (often) not really a very good band. And they weren't TRYING to be, which can lead to some headbutting with the World of Commerce. They started off having fun, and David Nelson's "lead guitar" certainly wasn't going to scare too many pickers in Nashville. Even just living in the same town and repeatedly sharing stages with the likes of Carlos Santana, Mike Bloomfield, Jorma 'n' Jack, John Cippolini, Jerry Garcia in his day job - a jokey, "having fun" approach would be a comforting escape hatch. I'm a fan of sugarmegs.org, why not, thousands of free concerts from everywhere, everywhen, but NRPS is not a repeated stop for me. Like this show:
http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/NewR ... HallMA.asx

On the first song, Garcia's solo is clearly an attempt to chase a MUSICAL idea around rather than a sequence of impressively-hot country licks. He didn't know any, so that's a lucky thing there. I've never heard another steel guitar solo like that, and indeed, Garcia does lead and push the rhythm of the band instrumentally from the steel guitar chair, which you also don't hear too much of. Like never? But he HAD to, because David Nelson only knew three guitar licks himself. And, I don't know if this is Nelson or John Dawson singing, but they both often performed "classic" country with a jokey, sort-of mocking approach, one they shared with Commander Cody & the Lost Planet Airmen - "Ha ha, we're imitating REDNECKS, aren't we funny?"

Ummm.... No?

[Jack Hanson]

The Grateful Dead was a boring band too.

My sentiments exactly. For years when asked my opinion of the Dead my stock reply was that they reminded me of Lovin' Spoonful wannabes on Seconal.

[chris ivey]

the dead and nrps were never claiming to be a slick commercial product. they were real people having fun.
i'm guessing by the responses that 99% of the forum never did LSD. that means there is a huge gap in understanding that will always be there. and a large lack of love and brotherhood.
they were pioneers. and amazingly, they wrote a gaggle of popular songs that resonated with their generation.
vocally speaking, as an instrument dawson, garcia, dylan, tom waits, john prins and a thousand more
couldn't sing for crap, but they were artists with lots to offer. one of my favorite terrible singers is lyle lovett.

[Joachim Kettner]

The few times I took it Chris, I was often exposed to music I didn't like when in a normal mood. I've always liked a bit of Rock'n'Roll in any music. And the Grateful Dead had it with "Truckin" and "One More Saturday Night". That's why I didn't like Krautrock or experimantal English bands who were not rooted in Rock'n'Roll. This band had it both:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUgRQh3k2uI

[chris ivey]

i like that joachim. i hear similarities.