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Topic: strings and volume/output |
Randy Reeves
From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2004 12:39 pm
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I have a Sho-Bud tuned E9. I have noticed that the output in volume of the higher strings to be less than the lower strings.
the difference is not great, but noticable.
If I add some pressure to the bar the higher strings have a little more presence. the lower strings always have presence.
is this normal?
I doubt a pickup would lose some oomph on one end and not the other. |
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John Daugherty
From: Rolla, Missouri, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2004 1:41 pm
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Randy, have you tried adjusting the pickup to bring it closer to the high strings? My pickup is approximately 3/16" below the strings.
String balance is also a problem with some amps that were not designed for steel guitar. |
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Randy Reeves
From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2004 2:11 pm
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thanks for the reply. I did check the p.u. height and it is set fine.
good point about the amp. Ive got a Fender Vibrolux Custom. a nice clean all tube amp.
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Ricky Davis
From: Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2004 4:49 pm
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Randy; String gauging on a Sho~bud is soooo important. If you are using string gauges that are designed for the longer scale pedal steels like; Emmons; Zum; Franklin; Mullen...etc.: than you will find a better balance in sound output with the proper guages designed for the 24" scale pedal steel(which Sho~bud is). Yes I've noticed the same thing you are describing on many Sho-Buds and usually from the later model ones; as the strings vibrate on un-natural metal. So one will find more sustain and output in using proper string gauging.
I can also think of several other things; but start with that.
Ricky |
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Stephen Gambrell
From: Over there
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Posted 2 Dec 2004 5:36 pm
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Brings up a question---has anybody ever made a steel guitar pickup with adjustable pole pieces, like regular guitar pickups have? |
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Jim Smith
From: Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2004 6:48 pm
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The Jim Pittman pickups have adjustable pole pieces. I believe JayDee Maness is putting them on all of his guitars for that very reason. |
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Eric West
From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Dec 2004 7:08 pm
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below [This message was edited by Eric West on 02 December 2004 at 07:16 PM.] |
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Eric West
From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Dec 2004 7:09 pm
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I had JW position the magnets higher on the smallest wound string, at 1/8" high and down 1 32 for the next three thicker strings. I had to use a .24 plain to get it to pick up right. I can dremel them down should I need to. I've never liked fixed magnet heights.
They've been sent to Duane and Jeff for my Marrs retrofit Professional.
I'll let you know how they work when I find out.
EJL |
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Peter
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Posted 2 Dec 2004 10:36 pm
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Stephen, Danny Shields made humbucker pickups with adjustable polepieces in both coils. This was useful, because if you wanted a single coil sound whilst keeping the humbucking feature, all you had to do is turn up the polepieces in coil A and turn down the polepieces in coil B.
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Peter den Hartogh
1970 Emmons D10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy
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Per Berner
From: Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 2:38 am
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Ricky D: What are the proper gauges for a 24" scale, or rather: what strings need different gauges compared to the 24 1/4" scale?
Also, does anyone know what would be best for a 25 or 25 1/2" scale?
(my interest concerns E9th only)
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Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, Sho-Bud Pro III Custom SD10 4+5, Goodrich 120, Peavey Nashville 1000
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Ron !
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 3:13 am
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I agree with Ricky on this one.String gauges are very important on a Sho~Bud.
What kinda pup are you using on this Sho~Bud?
If you are using a George L you should consider adjusting it.
quote:
The critical factor in the pickup height adjustment is the distance between the pole pieces of the pickup and the strings.
When you are adjusting your George L's pickups, the STARTING POINT is at least the thickness of a US quarter {$.025}or .09 inch {2 mm}. This is the MINIMUM distance which should be used.
You should only increase the amount of spacing between the pickup and the string as you feel necessary to achieve optimal sound.
The optimal STARTING POINT for adjustments to a Lawrence or a pole piece style pickup is 2 quarter's thickness (approximately 3/16 inch).
The reason that the George L's pickups use 1 quarter's thickness as a STARTING POINT is that there is an ABS plastic housing between the George L's bar-style pole pieces and the strings. This housing is approximately 3/32 inch. If you add a quarter's thickness (approximately .090 inch), you end up with approximately 3/16 inch distance from the strings the pickup's bar-style pole pieces.
The reason the recommendation for other pickups is approximately 3/16 inch is because the pole pieces are exposed.
These distances are NOT absolutes! :-)
Performance will vary depending upon several factors, one of which is your touch.
Remember: the thickness of a US quarter coin {3/32 inch} is just the STARTING POINT for adjustment between the ABS plastic case of a George L's pickup and your strings.
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If you follow the suggestions below, you should be able to successfully replace the pickups in your steel guitar.
Checklist for replacing steel guitar pickups
Observe the way the pickup is mounted and oriented.
Very important: Draw a good diagram of your wiring before starting.
Remove any extra tabs from the replacement pickup.
Secure the replacement pickup to the guitar.
Make good solder joints.
Verify the wiring.
Maybe this will help a little.
If not try a different type of string gauge like Ricky said.
Ron
Nikaro SD10 4x6
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Ray Minich
From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 6:54 am
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Regardless of the axe I've never solved the problem of #3 string (G#) sounding thin. Kinda seems always like it needs it's own amplifier. Does a 0.0115 do better here? |
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Randy Reeves
From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 7:20 am
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yes, that third string could use its own amp.
Mr. Davis. again your help is fantastic. I believe I used this forum to get a handle on the string gauges I would need for pedal steel guitar. note the 'generic' sense of the wording. I will have to check my notes as to what gauge I did put on my SHO-BUD specificly.
it is good to understand the idiosyncracies of the PSG one is using. I know so little about SHO-BUD, except that we are both falling fast in love.
Ron: you asked if I have a George L pup on this steel. my answer would be how could I tell? were they standard issue of 74 SHO-BUDs? I do know it's big and has huge output. to be honest, I havent poked and looked at everything on this steel...yet.
thank you everyone fo your replies.
ps: I will recheck my spacing using a quarter . that was posted on this forum along time ago. props for bringing that to my attention!
[This message was edited by Randy Reeves on 03 December 2004 at 07:27 AM.] |
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Ron !
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 8:24 am
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Quote: |
Does a 0.0115 do better here? |
IMO....Yes it does.
I use a 0.115 for many years now and I will not go back to a 0.11.
Ron
Nikaro SD10 4x6
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Ricky Davis
From: Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 8:50 am
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.013p
.015p
.012p
.014p
.018p
.022w or .022p
.026w
.030w
.034w
.038w
I also prefer Nickle wound as they speak more evenly with the plain strings throughout. The Stainless Steel wound are too loud..ha..
Also; Drop a bead of 3 & 1 oil right on top of the string sitting on the rollers; as sometimes the rollers can sit weird and inhibit the vibration of the string and therefore the output of the string.
Randy; if you see 10 little metal circle(poles) on your pickup, most likely it's the original sho-bud pickup. But if it's a slick square box on top that probably a George L and Rip that pickup right out of there immediatly as that is completely the wrong pickup to have in a Real Sho-bud like you have.
Ricky |
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Randy Reeves
From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 9:04 am
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according to Ricky I do not have the George L pup. yes, my SHO-BUD looks to be all original.
my string gauges are as posted above too.
I love the sound of nickel strings. it's mandatory on my electric guitars. for this steel I put on half round nickel, if my memory serves me.
I wll recheck my pup/string spacing, but I bet Im good to go. |
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Ron !
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 9:07 am
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Quote: |
Rip that pickup right out of there immediatly as that is completely the wrong pickup |
What's wrong with George L's Ricky?
Or is it only on a Sho-Bud that you don't like um?
You are right when you say that a George L does not belong on a Sho-Bud.
Ron
Nikaro SD10 4x6 |
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Jim Hankins
From: Yuba City, California, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 9:47 am
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I noticed the same thing with my Shobud, Jim |
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Ricky Davis
From: Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 9:52 am
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Yes Ronald it's like I said; I don't like them on the Sho-bud as I feel it's the wrong pickup for a Sho-bud. I do; however, like the George L on a formica covered long scale pedal steel for a humbucking pickup.
Here are my string gauges I use for both necks also:
E9th Tuning C6th Tuning
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F# .013 G .012
D# .015 E .014
G# .012 C .017
E .014 A .020p
B .018 G .024w
G# .022w E .030
F# .026 C .036
E .030 A .042
D .034 F .056
B .038 C .070
http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/jagwire.htm
Ricky |
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Ben Slaughter
From: Madera, California
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 12:19 pm
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The .0115 does wonders on my guitars, Zum and Carter, both with George L's. I would not go back to an .011. |
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Ricky Davis
From: Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 12:56 pm
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Ben; Randy is talking about a 24" scale All Wood Sho-bud, that is completely different from a Zum and Carter. So String gauging and pickups are also completely different.
Ricky |
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Randy Reeves
From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 1:26 pm
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here's a pic of my wooden SHO-BUD
the cute blonde in the corner is my new Highway 1 tele. my twang monster.[This message was edited by Randy Reeves on 03 December 2004 at 01:27 PM.] |
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James Quackenbush
From: Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2004 3:57 pm
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I can't speak for a Shobud, but generally speaking , the volume remaining somewhat balanced on a Steel Guitar is what I call "string to string balance"....I use single coil pickups on my steels, and have them wound or re-wound by Jerry Wallace ....Don't ask me what is in his pickups that makes them sound so good , because I really don't know....I can tell you this though ....Not only do his pickups sound GREAT , but the string to string balance is the best of any pickup I have heard to date, and this is on ANY steel that I have put them on ...This is of coarse after setting up the pickup to the proper height ....Other pickups had some strings that would just ring out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the strings ....I'm sure that what Ricky is saying about string gauge also has a HUGE part to play in the total picture but the Truetone magic has a large part to play also, at least in the steels that I have put them on .....Sincerely, Jim |
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