Aluminum or not?

Ron ! · Posted 1 Dec 2004 11:13 am

Forumites.

This is the third "Nikaro"
It's not done yet.It needs some more bellcranks and a double stop on the RKL and some minor adjustments.And all the parts need polishing.
But what do you guys think?
Should I use different materials for the next Pedal Steel Guitar or should I stick with aluminum?

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 01 December 2004 at 11:14 AM.]

richard burton · From: Britain

Don't use aluminium for the cross-shafts, it can cause tuning mayhem on mutiple pulls.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

To add to what Richard said, the cross shafts would be better if they are stainless steel, the cheapest alloys would be either a 303 or a 304.

Ron ! · Posted 1 Dec 2004 12:17 pm

The first two steels had aluminium cross shafts.Never had any trouble with noise or what so ever.Must be the alloy I am using.
I am using 6061 for the cross shafts.This is the alloy that everybody recommends.
The shafts are 0.4 of an inch to be exact.Thats 10mm.All these shafts are sealed in nylon bushings.
I have them tested over and over again when I build the first steel.And they stayed the way they should.

I did not use Stainless for these shafts because I do not want these steels to be heavey.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Aluminum will work okay for single necks because the span isn't very long. If you ever make a double neck though, you'll want to consider steel, or have very good shaft braces between the necks.

Farris Currie · From: Ona, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

all jokes aside,RON alum. changes bad,a 20ft bar will change in temp.up to 1/2 inch in length.i would use stainless or chrome plated steel. also center braces are great,all your pedal adjustments are changed with alum. i have heard that you can change the guitar,just by blowing a hairdryed on it. pretty sensitive huh. farris

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Aw, try something cheap like gold or platinum, maybe titanium

What I dislike about aluminum is that it takes a set from a setscrew and is easily gouged or indented. Let's say you have a close fitting sliding fit between a machined outer ring (like a Dekley BellCrank) and an aluminum cross shaft, honkin' down on the set screw can raise a dent in the cross shaft that then won't let the bell crank slide when you release the setscrew. (I've replaced a couple of the socket head set screws with socket head cap screws just to make it easier to get the allen wrench on 'em, and encountered this problem.)

mickd · From: london,england

aluminium cross shafts will lead to problems if you have a Universal copedant. Do a forum search on aluminium/aluminum and you'll find a load of stuff about this. Its apparent when a raise (such as U12 string 9 with the A pedal) is subsequently raised further (e.g to get the missing 'D' string, via RKR, say) and then the 2nd raise is released. It also happens when a lower (e.g string 8, lowered to go into B6 mode) is then further lowered (e.g Pedal 6) and then the 2nd lower is released.
In my case, changing just 2 of the shafts from aluminium to steel cured this detuning problem.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

If you are going to use aluminum, you may want to use 7075 T-6. If you are going to use set screws, get the flat point instead of the cup point.

Dan Dowd · From: Paducah, KY, R.I.P.

I thought the Franklin Guitar used aluminum cross shafts. I saw one that did and they were 3/8 square,but dont know if they all are aluminum.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Ron, if the aluminum is T-6061, and the shafts are at least .375", they'll do fine. I'd think about two things, though...

1.) Titanium pull-rods are light as aluminum, but strong as stainless, and would change less with temperature than either, that's why MSA uses them now. (They are harder to machine and bend, though.)

2.) If I were building a steel, I'd keep all brackets off the underside of the deck (body-board), and mount them on the front and rear aprons, instead. What little resonance you have in a pedal steel is in that body-board, and everything you mount on it (knee-lever brackets and cross-shaft brackets) kills a little of that resonance.

It's a fine looking steel!

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 01 December 2004 at 06:17 PM.]

Ron ! · Posted 2 Dec 2004 8:03 am

Chas.

I have to take the whole steel apart and polish it so there will be other screws when I put it back together.

Dan.

I know about the Franklin guitar that had aluminum cross shafts.That was one of the reasons that i decided to use aluminum in the first place.

Donny.

The alloy is T 6061 and the shafts are indeed .375" so that will do fine I guess.
The bracketts are on the body-board.But when playing the steel there is no resonance.
I think I have done it right but when everything is polished and assembled I will give it a testrun.I will post a small soundclip when it is done.
When it does have resonance of any type ....it's back to the drawingboard.
This is a prototype.The other steels I build did have all brackets and shafts mounted on the front and rear aprons.
So let's hope for the best.

Thanks for all the advice guys....keep um coming.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

David Doggett · Posted 2 Dec 2004 8:54 am

Ron, would you expand on your comments about body resonance in a steel guitar. We have discussed that topic here before, but it was all speculation and opinions, with no hard facts. Are you saying any resonance in a steel guitar is bad?

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Ron, the "resonance" I'm referring to is that which adds character and style to the sound. (I wasn't referring to rattles and buzzes caused by the metal parts.) Though the pedal steel body doesn't resonate as much as that of an acoustic guitar, it does resonate enough to give the steel it's characteristic sound, or timbre. That's why the Sho~Bud sounds different than an Emmons or a Mullen.

Ron ! · Posted 2 Dec 2004 12:08 pm

David

I think there should be enough resonance in a steel guitar to give it his characteristic sound like Donny said.
I assumed you were talking about rattles and buzzes.
If you are talking about characteristics then yes a steel guitar should have it.Just like any other guitar has his own sound, mine does too.There were topics on the forum that discussed this many times.For instance there were some questions about the sound of a P/P and why an all pull cannot compete with that sound.
Carl Dixon had a great statement.

quote:
IMO, the reason is mostly because all fingers are spring loaded hard against the cabinet. Thus, the string's vibration is transmitted from the string, to the finger (raise AND/or lower) to the cabinet.
All pull guitars, by their nature, do NOT have this body contact. IE, the changer fingers float; not only at rest, but when raised OR lowered.

You asked on some of the topics what the main factors are that determine the sound of a steel guitar.
IMO there are a number of factors that are responsible for the sound of a good steel guitar.
The material used for the cabinet is the main one IMO.For this steel I used plywood.After all....this is a prototype.

The only thing I did different with this cabinet is glue it layer by layer together.I used a very hard glue for this so every layer is sort of a compartment of it's own.Maybe that is why I have such a rich tone in this steel guitar.
It has a soft Mica finish.Different from the kinds all the other builders use.
My cabinet under the E9th neck is thicker then normal.Average is one half inch for body and aprons.I almost doubled that under the e9th neck.

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