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Topic: More Earth Drive Talk |
Buell Wisner
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 10:37 am |
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So, this subject is probably talked to death, but after using my Sarno Earth Drive for maybe eighteen months, I've got a couple of thoughts and wonder if anyone has similar experience:
1) Using the Earth Drive with PSG, I can't always find what I'm looking for. I think this is because of what happens on the gain knob between 9 and 10 o'clock. The gain goes from "clean boost" to saturation right in there somewhere. Looking at others' settings, I think most players are like me: hanging right in there, trying to find the sweet spot. Is it the taper of the gain pot that creates that tricky little spot? Or does it maybe work better with single-coil pickups? (I'm using the Lawrence humbucker with blades)
Still, when I've found that spot, it sounds awesome. I'm just still working on controlling the variables (bar, right-hand attack, volume pedal).
2) If you haven't used this pedal with six-string guitar, you don't know what you're missing. For decades, pedal makers have been trying to get the gain/distortion sound of the TS pedals without changing the EQ of the signal. This is almost exactly what the Earth Drive seems to do. I don't know anything about the circuit, but it has that beautiful TS harmonic content while maintaining what you're putting into it. I'm using it with my Les Paul and Deluxe Reverb, and it gives me an overdriven rhythm sound that you wouldn't believe with the amp clean. I have the volume and tone knobs between 1 and 2 and the gain knob between 10 and 11.
Go to any website that sells a "transparent OD" based on a TS or a Bluesbreaker, read their copy about transparency (a good example is the Analogman King of Tone), and then use the Earth Drive to achieve the results those (worthy) pedals promise. It's maybe the best I've tried at that TO ME. Had it come out five or ten years earlier, it would have the thegearpage.com aura that the KoT, Klon, and others have.
In this application, I've been using it for a harmonically-rich rhythm and boosting it for leads.
How closely does Brad guard the secret? I'd hate for a cloner to rip him off, but I am somewhat interested in the lineage of the circuit. |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 10:58 am
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If this does not apply to how you route this, ignore the following:
If you use an OD after a volume pedal, you will be riding a roller coaster trying to match a great sound you got one night on stage or one day in your practice studio. How hard you hit any OD is going to be a huge part of the final formula. I'm speaking from my own experience of wanting an OD to be volume sensitive, using the v pedal to fine tune the OD grind, same as a guitarist uses the volume knobs.
But I've come around to putting OD before VP OR setting up the OD with VP full on and adjusting output level of the OD for final volume.
It can be tricky since the only way to adjust final volume onstage if the band is playing loud and loose late into the third set is at the box. |
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Buell Wisner
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 11:22 am
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| Jon Light wrote: |
If this does not apply to how you route this, ignore the following:
If you use an OD after a volume pedal, you will be riding a roller coaster trying to match a great sound you got one night on stage or one day in your practice studio. How hard you hit any OD is going to be a huge part of the final formula. I'm speaking from my own experience of wanting an OD to be volume sensitive, using the v pedal to fine tune the OD grind, same as a guitarist uses the volume knobs.
But I've come around to putting OD before VP OR setting up the OD with VP full on and adjusting output level of the OD for final volume.
It can be tricky since the only way to adjust final volume onstage if the band is playing loud and loose late into the third set is at the box. |
Yes, I'm putting it after the VP. I'm doing this partly to increase the range of gain (as you would going into a tube amp). While running the VP after does simplify variables, hitting the OD pedal with a fuller signal drives it so hard that it doesn't have the different degrees of dirt.
(The main reason I've gone back to putting everything after the VP is to get those pretty trails on my delay pedal, but that's irrelevant here).
But anyway, I can work on VP technique (and I'm also really interested in different bars for different purposes), but I'm wondering if anyone else notices that "shelf" on the gain knob. It's kinda like what happens on the reverb control on a Fender amp. You get to the "almost there" point (about 2.9), and the next step is "too much." I'm not quite sure why I'm able to work around the issue (though it's still there) with standard guitar. Obviously, the signal is much different.
I've been taking my foot of the volume pedal at different levels--real scientific stuff.  I still find that leap, when I'd rather have the shades of dirt between the two points.
While playing with my gear, I often wonder about things like pot taper and value in this and all circuits. It doesn't matter much live, but it does in the studio for sure.
Overall, it's such a sweet piece of gear. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 11:34 am
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My personal experience is much like Jon's. My sweet spot is always easy to find if the pedal looks directly at the pickup.
I run guitar=>EarthDrive=>Vol=>AmpIn
My spacial effects run separately into the effects loop (post eq patch actually) send/return.
I find this gives me the maximum amount of sonic flexibility.
ymmv
hp
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
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Buell Wisner
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 11:54 am
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No effects loop here, and the board is pulling double duty with standard guitar (2 separate ins, two separate outs).
What kind of amps are you guys using, and how much distortion do you like out of the pedal?
I'm mostly using silverface Fenders. I don't like very much distortion--maybe the first couple of numbers when a '60s-70s Fender starts breaking up. I'm getting much more than that just past nine, though. |
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Buell Wisner
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 1:32 pm
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So, because I seemed overly-critical in my first post, I just spent an hour re-testing the ED.
I haven't really done this with PSG since I bonded with the pedal on six-string.
I used the Deluxe Reverb, since that's the amp I've been getting good results with six-string guitar and since it's the current focus of a dual-purpose "light rig" I'm working on.
It's much different from the Milkman, so these next comments apply only to the Deluxe Reverb (which is a bright, fizzy amp with my PSG).
Since I last worked hard with the ED, I've changed a lot of things. So, I made new progress today in dialing the ED.
Two big things: I've been using my Sarno Freeloader as a tone knob. What had sounded good clean (keeping amp bright and ruling back on the FL) is not ideal for the ED. It needs a fuller-range signal (from low to high; I'm not talking about volume) hitting it to break up right. Lowering treble on the amp itself and letting more high end pass through the Freeloader made the clipping on the ED sound more natural. Duh.
Also, I've transitioned to a VP with multiple tapers. I started off using the taper(s) that seemed to roll off highs with the heel down. Today, I found the tapers that preserve more high end with heel down to work better with the ED. This is no doubt related to my comments above on the Freeloader--the ED wouldn't respond to the loaded down signal and the rolled-off highs in a way I wanted (it was more like the "woman tone," I suppose).
There are more variables at work and thus more dialing to come. As of now, it seems that the things I did to the signal to keep the tube amps from being too bright and fizzy have stood in the way of getting good results from the ED.
Edited for clarity and auto-correction errors.
Last edited by Buell Wisner on 10 Apr 2016 6:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 1:59 pm
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I'm a tad confused by some of your comments. Care to specify the makes/models of the components in your signal chain?
h |
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Buell Wisner
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 5:01 pm
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| Howard Parker wrote: |
I'm a tad confused by some of your comments. Care to specify the makes/models of the components in your signal chain?
h |
Williams 700-->Sarno Freeloader (at one point Goodrich 7A)-->Telonics VP (formerly Goodrich and Ernie Ball pot pedals)-->Earth Drive-->tube amp
The shuffling of buffers/pickup loaders and volume pedals seems to have been the biggest impediment to finding my sound on the ED.
I think that's why I've liked it more on six-string guitar, which is not encumbered by all of these things. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 5:52 pm
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More clear now. Thanks. Two buffered devices. Dunno.
Describing sound preferences is like describing color preferences. I'm using a passive pedal in my setup.
fwiw...I found it incredibly easy to dial in my preferred OD sound. But, only steel into (primarily) a NV112.
Good luck with your search.
h |
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Buell Wisner
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2016 6:08 pm
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| Howard Parker wrote: |
More clear now. Thanks. Two buffered devices. Dunno.
Describing sound preferences is like describing color preferences. I'm using a passive pedal in my setup.
fwiw...I found it incredibly easy to dial in my preferred OD sound. But, only steel into (primarily) a NV112.
Good luck with your search.
h |
Yep. Lots of garbling from typing on a phone. I think I've clarified a bit.
In formulating my questions, I think I've found some answers. I think maybe the "saturation" was from hitting the ED with a signal from which I had sucked all the highs. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2016 7:37 am
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I've been playing with an Earth Drive lately.
I have it located before the volume pedal and it adds a certain amount of "sparkle" that I like. |
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Mike Terry
From:
Galesburg Il
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Posted 11 Apr 2016 10:45 am
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| My last 2 gigs i've went from my steel - Earth Drive pedal - Goodrich pot VP - Boss RV 3 - Nashville 112 & it's the best sounding set up i've used. I bought it with a leg clip to use as an overdrive pedal but i find this set up sounds even better than using my Black Box. I left the Black Box at home & use the Earth Drive in it's place. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 11 Apr 2016 11:05 am
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Erv and Mike. Are you using the ED in a clean manner? That is, the controls adjusted so there is no obvious distortion?
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2016 12:35 pm
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Tom,
Yes, I'm using it in a clean manner.  |
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Mike Terry
From:
Galesburg Il
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Posted 11 Apr 2016 12:41 pm
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| Tom, yes , the drive knob is barely on . the volume knob i set so it's the same as when the swich is off or on. The nice thing about a leg clip is that when i want an overdrive sound is i just reach down & turn the drive knob up & it's Sneaky Pete City ! |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 11 Apr 2016 4:08 pm
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I have a leg clip on mine as well, but I also got Brad to replace the stomp switch with a toggle switch - so it's much easier to activate when it's attached to the leg of my Zums ....
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2016 6:56 am
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| I just place mine on the floor next to and before the foot volume control. When my amp is one, the Earth Drive is on. |
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George Redmon
From:
Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.
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Posted 12 Apr 2016 11:08 am
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| Quote: |
| Are you using the ED in a clean manner? That is, the controls adjusted so there is no obvious distortion? |
Nope |
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Buell Wisner
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2016 6:07 pm
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| Mike Terry wrote: |
| Tom, yes , the drive knob is barely on . the volume knob i set so it's the same as when the swich is off or on. The nice thing about a leg clip is that when i want an overdrive sound is i just reach down & turn the drive knob up & it's Sneaky Pete City ! |
If you mean Sneaky Pete's fuzz sound, that's exactly what I meant by too much saturation! |
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Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
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Posted 12 Apr 2016 9:34 pm Earth Drive
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I got an Earth Drive a few months ago, with a leg clip & toggle switch. It has become my buffer, my volume control, my tone control, and optional distortion.
The fuzz does happen pretty quickly between 9-10 o'clock, but it also depends how hard I pick.
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
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Mike Terry
From:
Galesburg Il
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 6:35 am
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| Buell Wisner wrote: |
If you mean Sneaky Pete's fuzz sound, that's exactly what I meant by too much saturation! |
And that's why i ordered it with a leg clip & toggle switch. I leave the toggle switch on all the time & the Drive knob barely turned on . It " warms up " the sound. If you WANT overdrive you can just reach down & turn up the Drive knob & it will disort, but that's not the reason i use it. |
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George Redmon
From:
Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 8:54 am
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| I use it for just the opposite reason as you do Mike. I have buffers in my Goodrich Match~Bro, and also in my Hilton volume pedal. I wanted a over drive effects box that would deliver clean over drive, and sustain without affecting my over all signal when not in use. The Earth Drive does just that for me. The Earth Drive is capable of delivering long sustains with just enough bite to make it sound great. Yet in my chain it is completely transparent, you'd never know it's there. It's very informative to see how different folks use the same products. I bought my ED used here on the forum, I've used it to death, about time to get a new one from Brad. I really enjoy this thread, thanks for starting it. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 9:11 am
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I have no experience with the ED specifically but have used the Telonics pedal ahead of an overdriven tube amp and while I love the shimmering singing harmonics the amp gets with the Telonics... there is something about the way it buffers that makes the sweet spot really fussy when adjusting the pedal... I havent played much with the impedance screw which may resolve all this. ...at its current settinfa there is something in the way the guitar loads up differently on the high freq signal that changes the way the overdrive reacts. The sweet spot is very sweet but very narrow. By comparison. . A passive goodrich makes the guitar bark...not sing... it doesnt get too sweet but it isn't fussy either. I am going to try a different VP this week.
Seems to be similar problem wise as the OP remarks... so what Im saying is maybe your Telonics pedal needs tweaking at the impedance screw as does mine. |
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Buell Wisner
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 9:42 am
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| Tom Gorr wrote: |
I have no experience with the ED specifically but have used the Telonics pedal ahead of an overdriven tube amp and while I love the shimmering singing harmonics the amp gets with the Telonics... there is something about the way it buffers that makes the sweet spot really fussy when adjusting the pedal... I havent played much with the impedance screw which may resolve all this. ...at its current settinfa there is something in the way the guitar loads up differently on the high freq signal that changes the way the overdrive reacts. The sweet spot is very sweet but very narrow. By comparison. . A passive goodrich makes the guitar bark...not sing... it doesnt get too sweet but it isn't fussy either. I am going to try a different VP this week.
Seems to be similar problem wise as the OP remarks... so what Im saying is maybe your Telonics pedal needs tweaking at the impedance screw as does mine. |
That's certainly possible, and it sounds like we're fighting some of the same things. I tweaked the impedance control for the first few months I had the Telonics, but after reading their numerous warning about doing so and desiring to have a tone control at my fingertips, I went back to using a Matchbox and then the much-more-neutral Freeloader. The FL in particular seems to drive the signal through the Telonics pretty well, and I can smooth out the sparkle. It seems to me that most modern PSG gear is designed for solid state amps, and thus keeping those highs under control can be tough with other kinds of amps and gear.
What I've noticed lately, as I've been getting into experimenting with the tapers, is how very different they sound from one another. I started with #4 (Emmons, IIRC), but now I'm bouncing between #1 (new-style Hilton, which is very even throughout its sweep and has a lot of "shimmer" on the top) and #2 (Goodrich LDR, which is pretty smooth and seems fuller in the low end). I could have the #s mixed up, but I think that's right.
It's a lot of fun to play with. I actually liked my Goodrich 120 well enough when I had it, but I've broken multiple Ernie Ball VP strings in the past (not to mention those squeaky pots) and was therefore very nervous gigging the Goodrich without a backup. When I went to a non-pot pedal, I went all the way!
I feel that so many of the complications come from running my PSG into "guitar amps." The Milkman half n half is pretty easy to get a good sound from without all this hand-wringing.  |
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Kelvin Monaghan
From:
Victoria, Australia
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Posted 13 Apr 2016 11:57 pm
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I have been using the Earth drive since it first came out,with Lap steel and Strat and Tele.
To get the full benefit of the tones this pedal produces,Guitar direct into the ED if you put a buffer or vol pedal etc before ,youll get the raspy edge,rather than a nice smooth overdrive.
My pedal wont heavily start to distort till about 1 oclock .
I have black box but put it after the ED ,I found putting before,I lost the guiar pedal control,the ED into the blackbox gives a very smooth natural tube like distortion.
Of course it all depends on the pickup output,high output pickups will overdrive much earlier.
My observations.Cheers |
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