Maybe I should quit the PSG

Fred Einspruch · Post by **Fred Einspruch** » 14 Nov 2004 5:19 pm

Maybe I should quit the PSG and go back to 6 string. I have been messing around with the PSG for a little over a year, I admittingly don't spend a whole lot of time on it, but I am not getting very far. I just went to the Conn. show and heard what real PSG players sound like. I have been working on E9th only. Any suggestions?

OK, thanks for all the replies, you guys are great! Let me clear up a couple things, first, even if I do quit the PSG, which I am not really planning on doing, I would still like to attend a steel show once a year, just to hear the great players.
Second, I don't expect to ever be as good as those top steel players, especially if I am just messin around with it. Even if I practiced as much as Joe Wright did (he told me that he started at eight years old) I might not be as good a player as Joe, because Joe might (er probably does) have a larger amount of inherent ability than I do. Any maybe if you practice eight hours a day at age 10 or twelve, maybe it just sinks in faster or deeper, who knows. But I wouldn't have to be a top level player to have fun and consider myself a successful PSG player. I would like to make a considerable amount of progress in the next year. And I guess I would like to learn as efficiently as possible, being that time is not an unlimited resource.

As far as playing six string before starting PSG, I think it helps alot. I know the I,IV and V chords, and I know what a major, minor and seventh and ninth chords sound like (and yes I know a few others also). And in e9th land the G is still at the 3rd fret A at the 5th etc, just like the 6 string. So I think that lots of six string guitar is 100% applicable to PSG, but there is still a whole world of other stuff about the PSG that I have not yet grasped in a meaningful way.

I feel like I did learn some things and I did take a few lessons from Jay Ganz who lives near me. I have not been able to see any steelers in any bands except at the Conn PSG show. I guess my main point of frustration is that I don't sound like a pedal steel guitar player so I wonder if I am getting it at all sometimes. Again, thanks for all the words of encouragement. [This message was edited by Fred Einspruch on 15 November 2004 at 11:08 AM.]

David Higginbotham · Post by **David Higginbotham** » 14 Nov 2004 5:29 pm

Practic! Practice! Practice! Those guys make it look so easy when they play, but what is unknown is how many hours they actually spent learning. An hour a day minimum is what is needed for practicing time. Just when you think you have gone as far as you can, you will learn something that will open a door to a whole new world. I have been playing 10 years now and have felt that way many times, wanting to quit. I still do not feel I am where I should be due to lack of dedication, but we learn until we die!
Dave

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 14 Nov 2004 5:46 pm

For me, the best way to learn fast is to play regularly with other people. I lucked out and ended up in a band that used a lot of oddball chord progressions. Great crash course to get me beyond 1-4-5. Once I had a rapid command of several different chord positions for 7ths, minors, etc, then the single note stuff started coming slowly but naturally. If you're at all attached to the idea of playing psg then quitting is not going to work. Find a friend who plays slow country songs and do open mics. Lots of people are so thrilled to hear the sound of psg that they won't notice that you're not Buddy Emmons. Listen to music that has lots of steel. Especially stuff that you understand basically how to play.
Sorry to be such a blowhard. Hope something here helps. Not quitting is the main thing.

John Drury · Post by **John Drury** » 14 Nov 2004 6:09 pm

Fred,

I have been playing a lot longer than you have and it has been only recently that I began to notice that there are players out there that sound worse than I do.

Put it in the case and shove it under the bed. If it is still there six months from now, pull it out and sell it.

It could be the guitar too. No matter about brands, some guitars want you to play them worse than others. There are also guitars that don't even want to be bothered by you, I know, I had one. It got along great with other players, it was me that it had a problem with.
I greatly improved the tone of that guitar by selling it to another player! LMAO!

If you are going to the trouble to attend steel shows, it sounds like you have the desire to learn how to play one.

Good luck,

John Drury
NTSGA #3

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 14 Nov 2004 6:32 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 18 November 2004 at 09:24 AM.]

Sidney Malone · Post by **Sidney Malone** » 14 Nov 2004 6:50 pm

My first suggestion would be to get a good real live teacher!! You need some goals to shoot for and some direction on how to achieve those goals. Without a teacher to get me going in the right direction there's no doubt I would have quit long ago!!

Also Read This it will be a great place to start before going to a teacher.

One last thing, the great player Joe Wright told me one time..."If you quit, you never will learn to play this thing"!!

Good Luck!!

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MSA Millennium S-12U
Fessy S-12U
Walker Stereo Steel, Hilton Pedal

Marc Friedland · Post by **Marc Friedland** » 14 Nov 2004 6:51 pm

Fred,
I've been playing the pedal steel for about 11 years. Like you, I also was fairly good on guitar and keyboards after playing them for many years. One of the things that really helped me through the first few years on the psg was setting realistic goals.
(I apologize to those that have heard me say this before)
My first year goal was to be extremely terrible and hopefully after two years I would be very bad. I went to a local honky tonk saloon and sat in with a band about a month after first trying the psg, and I probably didn't even know the names of the strings yet. I think I finally know the names of the strings now! About 6 months after starting on the psg I found a band that accepted me as a steel player providing that I also play keyboards, so that turned into a great learning experience for me. Also helping me through the difficult initiation process was that I made myself find at least three hours or more a day to practice. It may require sacrifice, and you just have to trust that it will be worth it. Maybe you practice bowling twice a week or go to a gym regularly, whatever it may be you do with your time, and you can substitute that time for practicing the pedal steel. I understand the frustration of good guitar players who go to a steel show and realize even if you do find the time to practice every day for the rest of your life, you might not be able to do what you just heard a good steeler do. Many guitar players quit at that point because they don't want to sound lousy on an instrument, when they already sound good on another one, and figure they'll leave the pedal steel contraption to those "nuts" that already know how to play it. Well pretty much no one can do it the first time or the first year they play it. Everyone has their own learning curve on the instrument, and chances are if you stay with it long enough, you'll find within your own boundaries that you can play some really cool sounding stuff. Then once you start having fun with the instrument, you'll even experience greater level leaps on this beautiful instrument. I did start taking lessons from good local steel teachers about a month after getting my 1st psg, and I think that helped me a great deal.
I hope you stay with it. Have fun.
-- Marc [This message was edited by Marc Friedland on 14 November 2004 at 06:54 PM.]

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 14 Nov 2004 9:16 pm

I propose a five step solution.

#1 - Stop attending steel guitar shows. Post steel-show depressive disorder is not a healthy thing. I used to get it too - until I stopped attending !

#2 - Sign up to the next Joe Wright seminar being offered. You'll make more progress in two days then you will in two years on your own.

#3 - Leave before Joe jams with the local band. (See #1)

#4 - Play because YOU want to, and for no other reason.

#5 - If you still suck after 20 years - become a gearhead, and enjoy and experience all the neat electronic gadgets that musicians have at their disposal ad infinitum. Oh...and why wait?
[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 14 November 2004 at 09:19 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 14 Nov 2004 9:26 pm

Maybe you practice bowling twice a week or go to a gym regularly, whatever it may be you do with your time, and you can substitute that time for practicing the pedal steel.

Too many of us look like we substituted practicing for going to the gym... LOL (but really not funny)

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 14 Nov 2004 9:30 pm

An hour a day minimum is what is needed for practicing time

If you don't have an hour a day at least sit down and play for ten minutes - make it a part of your daily life and be patient. And if you insist on going out to see pickers with whole lifetimes of playing on you then remember that EVERY ONE OF US has felt (and probably still feels at some time or other) the same way you do .

Find some good music that is fun to play with, in general most of the best sounding stuff is not the hardest stuff to play, just the tastiest - find what appeals to you and go for it. If you still can't stand your own playing in twenty years you'll still be in good company.

Good luck and hang in there,

Dave

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Strung Out on Great Sounds

pdxaudio.com/dgbio

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 14 Nov 2004 9:57 pm

Well, if it's lack of progress that's getting you down, maybe you need to reassess your goals. Sometimes I find that even five minutes of practice is enough to make me feel like I'm getting somewhere, if I actually learn something during those five minutes.

Find a lick or a song you want to learn, and start to work on it, breaking it down into small chunks. You'll get a little hit of pride for every chunk you learn, which is better than waiting until you've figured out how to speed-pick like Paul Franklin before letting yourself feel good.

A teacher can help with this process, by assigning material that they feel will be at an appropriate level for you, and by offering some structure--that is to say, breaking the stuff down into small chunks for you. Also, the instant feedback and correction a teacher offers will smooth out the hard parts, and lead to quicker progress (provided the teacher's any good!).

If you don't have a teacher nearby, or can't afford one, you can do it yourself--the important thing is the readjustment of your goals, and your approach to practice.

-Travis

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 15 Nov 2004 12:58 am

You can't expect to sound like you have played for 20-30 years,
if you haven't put in the hours of time
that they have.

You can compress the time some what by intense practice,
but to some extent you need to develope mind muscle memory
and only time will do it.
So don't sweat it diude!

Just keep kickin at it.
DD

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 15 Nov 2004 1:24 am

I didn't feel like I had gotten very far after my first year either (almost 30 years ago), but thats when I found a band to play with and that gave me the inspiration to practice more. Try to find people to jam with, or maybe some bands that will let you sit in. Playing with tracks, or "band in a box", will help a lot too. There is a lot of great instructional material out there that have tracks to practice the lesson with. Hang in there, its worth it. Some of my best musical experiences have been playing Pedal Steel Guitar.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 15 Nov 2004 3:40 am

After having started and quit and restarted a couple of different instruments, besides my mainstay six-string electric guitar,it has finally dawned on me (at 46) that it's never a good idea to sell off an instrument too quickly - you never know when your life will rearrange itself to allow more time to practice. I got my first steel in 1985 or so, it just sat in a closet for 6 years so I dumped it. Then, ten years later, I had to get another one - just HAD to. I know a lot of older, retired people who seem desperately unhappy, because they don't have anything FUN to do - that won't happen to he who steels. Before you sell anything off that will affect the way you spend the rest of your life, maybe you should try a little needlepoint now, or go sit in at a ceramics class at your local senior center and see how well that sits with you.[This message was edited by David Mason on 15 November 2004 at 03:58 AM.]

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 15 Nov 2004 4:51 am

It has often been said that the PSG is a 10 year instrument. I think in most cases, this is certainly true. This is not to discourage you, just to point out that you are not going to learn much in a year. Jeff Newman once told me that how well you played didn't matter as much as to how long you had been playing, but whom you were around.I think you SHOULD attend all the steel shows you can. You have to get the sound in your head really good for it to come out your fingers. When I attended my first steel show, it was a real eye (ear) opener. I knew I wasn't in the groove properly. I went home and started working on every angle I could. I bought courses, I attended seminars, I talked to other steel players, I listened to records, I went to listen to live pickers, I took lessons from Jeff Newman in Nashville, and I practiced about 3 hours a day for almost a year. I have been at it for 30 years and still am not a great picker, but I am pretty satisfied with my playing. It certainly is nowhere near as good as the professionals, but I wouldn't trade the enjoyment I have had trying to learn this instrument for anything. It will really test your patience and about every one of us has either thought about or have quit before. It just boils down to how much of a desire you have to play and how much patience you have. The very best thing of course is a personal teacher. The 2nd best is probably video instruction. Good luck and I hope you decide to stay with it. Discouragement is part of the game, unfortunately.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 15 Nov 2004 5:13 am

It has much less to do with how long you practice than it does HOW YOU PRACTICE.

Those who speak of specific goals speak the truth. An effective practice session should include:
* dividing the time between learning new stuff and old stuff
(it's important to play exercises or songs that you've mastered but you'll waste your time if that's all you practice)
* recording your work and listening carefully to be sure that you sound like you think you do
(this will help you evaluate where you're at realistically -- IT WILL GET BETTER if you listen critically and fix the parts you don't like)
* don't just practice songs
(practice scales and patterns and exercises as well)
* learn something about music each lesson
(you should be able to 'spell' every major scale and learn how to construct chords from those scales -- there are many good books and websites that provide a lot of information on music theory)
* NEVER PRACTICE WITHOUT A METRONOME OR RHYTHM TRACK
(find the spots where you can't keep up and pay special attention to where you go wrong -- slow it down until you can begin to work it up to tempo)
* if you're really struggling, FIND YOURSELF A TEACHER
(not just any teacher -- find someone whose playing speaks to you and someone with whom you can communicate effectively)

It is possible to progress rapidly but there are a lot of factors that determine your success. I was the second lead guitarist in a country/rock band in the 70's. I bought a steel on a Wednesday and started taking it to gigs that weekend. After 6 months I was no longer even bringing a guitar to gigs. I woodshedded every song we played and found parts for tunes that didn't have steel on the original recordings. I had one lesson from a guy who had just gotten off the road with Charley Pride and he gave me enough to keep me going for more than a year.

GOOD LUCK. Keep at it a while longer.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 15 November 2004 at 05:20 AM.]

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 15 Nov 2004 8:49 am

Ah, go ahead and quit. Package all yer steel gear up and ship it to me. I'll even pay shipping

But seriously... Give it several years and practice some more before you make a judgement. Soon you'll see the patterns. Sometimes gettin' better is like watchin' trees grow. Stop lookin' for a while and just practice & play. One day down the road your gonna say WOW! (or some other expletive...).

Do NOT throw your steel guitar in the lake or pond, like some are prone do do with golf clubs. Steels don't breathe fresh water.[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 15 November 2004 at 09:54 AM.]

Joe Naylor · Post by **Joe Naylor** » 15 Nov 2004 9:16 am

I have owned a Pedal Steel just less than a year myself. Just finished spending a weekend here in AZ at the Southwest Steel Guitar Association jam an I was basically the only rookie there but received a lot of encouragement. Went to my first Steel Show a month after I bought my first steel and to St. Louis for the international in September - can hardly wait for the January show here in Arizona.

Check your email for some more stuff.

Jus' Trin' 2B Steelin'

Joe

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 15 Nov 2004 9:40 am

I have been messing around with the PSG

Any suggestions?

Yeah, stop "messing around" and get serious. Get a couple of courses, get a teacher, make a plan. Read what Larry Bell wrote a couple of times. I don't buy into the "10 years" theory at all. There are players that sounded great after a couple of years. Using the players at a show as a standard makes no sense. They are playing complicated instrumentals. All you have to do is learn how to pad, play fills, and solo over 16 measures or so. This is utterly doable with-in a couple of years and you have already spent a year at least getting some of the feel of it. Plus you play guitar, which means you already know music. If you put your mind to it and put it some real effort, you could be playing some stuff in a year. But "messing around" ain't gonna cut it.

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Jeff's Jazz
[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 15 November 2004 at 09:40 AM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 15 Nov 2004 11:19 am

I agree 100% with both Larry Bell and Jeff Lampert. Take heed to what they say. They're laying down the good info and you should be picking up on it.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 15 Nov 2004 11:49 am

Larry Bell said it right. Targeted practice and goals are the way to progress. Focus is very important. A GOOD teacher in the beginning also.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 15 Nov 2004 12:42 pm

i'm always amazed just how many Fo'Bro's will jump in when somebody says he's hangin' it up
looks like it's hurtin'us more than it is you Fred

i too will go along w: Jeff & Larry
crochet, fishin' skateboard, poker, mountain climbing might be good for a break
don't sell your gear, you'll probably come back a runnin'
shucks, i don't have a teacher, i'm probably doin' a bunch of things wrong
but i'm crazy bout the sound & the challenge of this contraption
so i'll quit steelin when somebody pries my bar from my cold fingers

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 15 Nov 2004 1:56 pm

Fred,
On Sunday, at the PSGA show, "ALL" the heavy weights admitted to learning just a little something extra, when they sat down to play. It could be anything, from a new phrasing, or a new found note, or just backing off a little on the volume pedal. It's really the nature of this beast, we love to play. There are so many variations to try and learn. If you took note of each player, over the weekend, you could hear so many different ways of playing steel. They were all great, but,with just a little different approach. I take that back ! In some case, a huge different approach. Don't forget, if you added all the years together that the pros have been playing. I don't really want to speculate, but, maybe 200 or so. Man, that's a lot of time playing steel! Some people can adapt well to the trappings of the steel and some can't. I think you already have a leg up, with being a guitar player, so don't give up and don't get depressed so easily. You can't compress 20 or 30 yrs of playing into 1 or 2. I suggest you keep practising, but, don't burn yourself out, and keep bugging Jay for more tutelage.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 15 Nov 2004 4:22 pm

Yeah Fred, You have great advice here on the forum! I suggest you join your local steel association and get involved. Meet all the players you can. Carry there amps for them. Get to know them. It's ok to be the new rookie in the club.
Don't bite off more than you can handle for your practice, and strive to get what you bite off as correct as you can. It will fall into place the more you do it. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Your first year with your steel should teach you this: If you want to be a steel player, pull your hat down, cause you'll be in it for the long haul. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that. I have two years under my belt now. I am still measuring the tip of the iceberg! I'm here to stay---I don't care how big the berg is. It's my deal, and I am not out to impress anyone, so I go at my pace. I am having a BLAST!!
Go have fun with your steel, now, and in 20 years, a newbie will be seeing you as the headliner, and be asking your question above, to you. Be there to encourage him when it happens.

Mike Lovell · Post by **Mike Lovell** » 15 Nov 2004 6:24 pm

Hang in there. Don't try to play like Mr. Emmons or Mr. Franklin. One goal is to play what is in your head. I don't know if you want to play only Country or are open to other styles. Try learning Hendrix's Little Wing. Play it slow and let the sound flow through and around you. Don't concentrate on which pedal or lever to push. Listen to the SOUND of the notes. Play music. Remember, it's an instrument not a mechanical devise to be conquered. Windy advice from someone with one month of pedal steel behind him. The boo-boos outweigh the good most of the time. It's the challenge and gratification of the sucesses.
Mike