MSA Legend 5 string. raising when lowering

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 7:42 am

I can't understand why my 5th string is raising when lowering, I have a franklin pedal lowering the 5&6 strings a full tone. but the fifth string starts to rise when I lower it, I adjusted the spring as much as I'm able but it's still rising and it will only drop half a tone to Bb...also I loosened every other pull on this string to no avail...any ideas?[/u]

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 12 Mar 2016 8:04 am

Which hole in the changer is the rod in?
I bet Â£2 that you're not in the bottom hole, possibly in the top hole.
The leverages involved mean that the raise scissor offers less resistance than the return spring, so the raise scissor moves instead of the lowering scissor and the return spring.
Move the rod to the bottom hole and it should drop no problem.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 8:31 am

your correct Lane, it in the middle hole of three, but there lies the problem I also lower the fifth string half a tone with vertical knee leaver which is in the bottom hole. swapping them I get the same problem the string starts to raise when when I lower the knee lever.as I use the B to Bb more I might have to put up with it..or change the franklin pedal to something else..thanks

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 12 Mar 2016 9:25 am

no...something is set up or adjusted wrong. an msa legend should be capable of anything.
who's been working on it? start there.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 9:46 am

Georg, I released the helper spring but it still raising.
Chris, I'm am working on it as there are no tech near me here in the UK. the guitar was altered by the owner before me, he fitted a franklin pedal moving the ABC down one pedal, so now pedal one is the franklin. I have been around steel guitars since the 70s and have been able to do most work on whatever guitar I owned.. never come across this problem before. I have got the guitar in good playing condition apart from this problem.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Mar 2016 9:50 am

Just for clarity, does the pitch start to lower and then raise? Or does it just raise at the first movement?

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 9:59 am

Jon it's almost simultaneously ,as it lowers it starts to rise as well and continues to rise, the string does lower to Bb but that's as far as it will go..

Malcolm McMaster · Post by **Malcolm McMaster** » 12 Mar 2016 10:03 am

John, email Mitchell Smithey at MSA, there is a contact address on MSA web site.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 10:04 am

Georg, the spring is adjusted as far as it will go without coming undone but it still rising

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 12 Mar 2016 10:07 am

Lubrication?

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 10:11 am

Malcolm, I have for other problem on the guitar but not got anywhere.I needed a rodding chart for the guitar but they don't have one, how could an MSA owner their steel back to the default setting without one??..thanks

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 10:14 am

Jon, no problems with lubrication there plenty...

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Mar 2016 10:22 am

Is the split tuner screw backed out completely so that it is not in contact with anything?

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 11:21 am

Jon, that was the problem, I Can't use the split with the franklin pedal,so I'm going to find another use for the franklin pedal. not I ever did use it, so what can I use that will go with the A pedal B to C# ,any ideas welcome.
thanks to everyone for your help..

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Mar 2016 11:28 am

Been there.
As popular as the Franklin pedal is, I thought I'd try it. The inherent physical conflict between the tuned split with the B>A# lower and the full step lower never entered my mind. I was surprised that I'd never read about it before, although once it became evident, it was clear that the only way the limiting action of the split-tuning screw would NOT interfere with the full step lower would be...magic.
I, too, regard the half step lower and the tuned split with the A pedal as an essential part of my playing so the Franklin experiment was history. I sleep ok.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 11:40 am

Georg, thanks for your help.. I think I'll find another use for the franklin...

Malcolm McMaster · Post by **Malcolm McMaster** » 12 Mar 2016 12:11 pm

John, really surprised you did not get a satisfactory response. I have always had first class responses from the guys, Kyle ,Mitchell, and Johnny Cox when he was there. I have spoken to Kyle this week about something I wanted to know and he said he would check it out for me, (had hoped to get to Dallas show, but sinus infection stopped me flying) and get back to me After Show. Mitchell handles the problem and tech queries, Vast experience as he worked for Carter before MSA, I am sure if you emailed him he could help.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 12 Mar 2016 12:34 pm

The positive stop of the "split screw" would be easy to overlook. Notice how we all did.
John, just add a raise rod to your X lever, tune the C note with the lowering rod, and the A# will be flat, so you'll have to tune it with the raise rod on the X lever. Then you'll have all five notes tunable: A, A#, B, C & C#.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Mar 2016 12:41 pm

Lane Gray wrote: Notice how we all did.

We all, kemosabe? :>]

The rod is a non-option on my U-12. All 3 raises are occupied. Could get a gizmo, though.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 12 Mar 2016 1:02 pm

A gizmo, or possibly a Sho-Bud rod and a couple barrels

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 12 Mar 2016 1:15 pm

Lane, thanks but I'm going to remove the franklin and go back to how it came from the factory...