Cor`s Problem

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 10 Nov 2004 12:09 am

Peter

As far as i know there never were company rules about refunds.They used the same that every other company uses.If you didn't like the guitar or unforeseen something happened to you or your health they gave you a refund minus the downpayment.That's normal standard.Not only in The U.S but also here in Europe.

When you have a good and reliable company you build up a reputation.The Lashley's (from my point of view)have had a good reputation.Just look at the fact that they would send out parts without you even paying upfront says more then enough.
They have done so for numerous years.My opinion is that the company has come to a point were they had to decide wether to change their policy or quit building.If it were me i would change my policy and send out a copy of this change to every customer in my database.
They never made public that they changed their policy.Not to Dealers nor to customers.They should have made it public that they did this so a customer or a soon to be customer should be given the time to decide to order or not too.

Insulting Cor, who is the injured party here, will not help anything.

I agree with you there Joey.But let it not be forgotten that people have been sued for less.I think what this gentlemen is meaning to say is that Cor should be carefull with his imputations.Right now Cor has a problem with the company.He wants his money back...That's his good right.But let it be said that abuse of somebody's name could get you in some serious trouble.The only thing that helps Cor to get his money back is to come up with legal ways.
Throwing a stick at eachother helps nobody.
There have been helpfull suggestions posted on this topic.
The only thing that we don't know is if the company has consulted a lawyer or not.I think they have.If this is the case then it could take a long long time for Cor to get this thing solved.
Cor has a receipt that he send to an attorney general and to the BBB.Uptill now there has been no response.Let's all hope that there will be an answer within a few days or weeks.
I'd like to see this thing solved without a company that has a great name going down de tube.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6[This message was edited by Ronald ! on 10 November 2004 at 12:57 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 10 Nov 2004 2:26 am

with all due repect..regardless of this situation..where and when have we ever heard of a policy of a 100% loss of money when an order is cancelled or an item is returned other than software and CD's , which in fact we all know the policy up front..it is clear..

I can speak of NC and Georgia where the retail consumer protection laws are clear..if you have an odd ball policy it must be posted in your store or in your place of business..or it must be clearly written on your initial paperwork which is received by the customer. These are consumer protection laws. Every state has them. This is why we have a so called cooling off period to back out of a deal..if you read something about the deal that you don't agree with.

now in this situation , if the policy was clear that you loose your 100% payment for a cancellation,( which I doubt is true) then the consumer has every right to just say..fine..give me the product which I paid for 100%. There is no such thing as a legal policy in the USA to pay for something and loose all your money because you changed your mind..there may be a penalty..but the penalty is not 100% of your payment. If the policy was 15% penalty for cancellation I would certainly think that was resonable..and common...

Judge Judy would pretty much just say..ok..you don't want to retun the money, then give him a guitar..you can't keep 100% of the money and the guitar that was paid for..even if there was a penalty for this deal the court order would be to give a guitar at the value of the $4500 minus the penalty..or return the cash with a common penalty discount.

I suspect now that unfortunatley there will be no resolution here..too much time and too many words have flown by with no reponse from the manufacturer which is never a good thing..this cannot be defended by any stretch...

I hate this for Cor..I hate this for Ron Jr., I hate it for our Steel Guitar society..

we are now approaching 400 posts on this topic..this has got to be an Internet record..

t

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 10 Nov 2004 4:25 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I hate this for Cor..I hate this for Ron Jr., I hate it for our Steel Guitar society.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I didn't know Ron Sr. personally, but I can only imagine him rolling in his grave, seeing what his son has done to the family reputation and to his father's legacy. Shame.

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » 10 Nov 2004 4:27 am

Cor
Do you think you could file
a lein against the Emmons Co.
so if they ever sold out, you
could recover some money??

------------------
Rick Johnson

autry andress · Post by **autry andress** » 10 Nov 2004 4:40 am

After reading about Emmons Guitar Co. Who would want to buy it now. Ron has lost to much business over this. (It may take a year are 2 to realize it, but it will happen.
Ron it's time to do something. Your gonna have to swim or sink.[This message was edited by autry andress on 10 November 2004 at 04:43 AM.]

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 10 Nov 2004 7:11 am

Just one more reason to only buy push-pull guitars! (As if one really needed another reason!

)

------------------
<A HREF="http://frankestesmba.com/" TARGET=_blank>Frank Estes
1978 Emmons D-10 8+7 #2441D
1968 Emmons D-10 8+4 #1234D</A>

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 10 Nov 2004 8:06 am

Rick would you explain me what that means??

hear ya'h

cor

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » 10 Nov 2004 9:46 am

I think an attorney has to file
this for you. Hope it helps.
Check your email too.

Rick

Lien:A claim by a party on the property of another for payment of a debt or obligation. It is not a right to the property itself, but rather stops the owner from doing anything with it. The lien may be enforced or collected by levying on the property

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 10 Nov 2004 10:06 am

okay Rick thank you i check it out

cor

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 10 Nov 2004 2:55 pm

This thread is about to catch up with Larry Chung's ZB thread.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 10 Nov 2004 3:34 pm

I don't have any knowledge of the precise laws that might apply, and no doubt there are some significant differences between the Canadian Law I've worked with and the laws down there. However, I can say, as someone who has done some judging himself, that I can't envision a scenario whereby "Judge Judy" would not order the return of the money, with interest. A guitar was paid for, never delivered, and now some new, unilaterally created "rule" is being cited - a rule which no reasonable person would ever have accepted on being informed of its existence. In the meantime, the company has had the use of the money, and Cor has not. And they haven't even used it to build the guitar they promised to build. So, assuming the facts as they have been reported, there is just no case for the other side. The trouble with claims of this size is that although they represent a lot of money to the individual, the cost of litigation can very quickly overtake the value of the claim. That's why small claims proceedings, which most North American jurisdictions seem to have, exist - so that people have access to a simple procedure that can serve to get their story in front of someone who can make a binding decision without the formality and expense of a conventional lawsuit. Hard to take advantage of from the other side of the ocean though - at some point Cor has to prove his case, which probably requires his presence so that he can testify. But the way I have seen these things work (and I suspect it might work similarly in most U.S. States), after the claim is filed a defence might not be filed (and it is hard to imagine a defense based on the facts we have), in which case default judgement gets granted. Then it is just a matter of enforcing the judgement - easier said than done, and virtually impossible against an insolvent defendant. So far, we've not heard that the company is insolvent, though the info we have is consistent with cash flow troubles.

This is an apalling story.

slick · Post by **slick** » 10 Nov 2004 5:33 pm

This is unbelievable!!!

Wayne

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 10 Nov 2004 7:11 pm

Thank you, Bob Blair, for your pointed and insightful input. I think you are "on the money".

The bottom line of this may be that Cor will never recover his money or get the guitar, and that's a shame.

Anytime a person is asked to pay in advance for something that will not be built for 12 months, the customer should ask himself what will be done with the money during that period of time. As a small business owner who knows what a cash crunch is (heck, I'm in the middle of one now!) I can tell you that it's very difficult to let money sit in escrow when there are immediate, critical needs. It would be all too easy to spend next year's money this year, in which case someone down the line would eventually not receive the goods for which they have paid.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 10 Nov 2004 8:57 pm

I spoke with Ron's mother-in-law today, and a new SD-10, with 4&5, is gonna cost about 3 grand, with a twenty week lead time. I'm only a few hours away from Burlington, so I think I'll sell my push-pull, my Sho-Bud Pro III, and buy a new Emmons! They asked for 10% up front, or 300.00.

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 10 Nov 2004 11:36 pm

3Grand?

There are builders that can build you a D10 8x6 for that money.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Nov 2004 2:05 am

Stephen, I think you should get rid of that Electric Guitar you play and get a real guitar too ! That is as long as you are getting rid of stuff.. maybe Rons mom will take that silly Electric Guitar as the $300 up front cash . Then one day, right after you come to your senses you can get a Tele' and join the real wannabe society !

Say hi to the immitation Patsy for me..

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 11 November 2004 at 02:06 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 11 Nov 2004 2:45 am

Stephen, considering the situation, i'm sure Lashley jr can use the money

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 11 Nov 2004 7:00 am

Ronald,
He maybe likes hay before it's been through the cow.

Erv

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 11 Nov 2004 7:16 am

I have read the 10+ pages.

Is this guy getting his $$ back or not?

If Emmons Gtr Co Inc. has not even built this guitar ...what's the deal?

Still confused..

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 11 Nov 2004 9:21 am

there is no money! but i ask them a serveral times to responde to me and come up with something like a solution or so.

maybe we can talk about it but they ignore everything i send to them so i have no other choice.
and then i do it my way till they come up or not.

cor[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 11 November 2004 at 09:23 AM.][This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 11 November 2004 at 09:24 AM.]

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 11 Nov 2004 9:45 am

and Bump again!

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 11 Nov 2004 9:52 am

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 11 Nov 2004 11:25 am

Dear Cor,

How is your health coming along? I heard that you were injured. Are you able to walk yet? When do you think that you will be able to play the pedal steel again? regards, tbh

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 11 Nov 2004 11:34 am

hey TBHenry,

thanks for asking.

yes it goes better with me slowly but carefull. i'm working already and that isn't the problem yet but the muscle vibrations and reflexes coming up at the unexpected times and when i have this i'm not able to play steel and also not in a band.
so thats why i had to dicided to quit with steel and don't wanna lay a expensive guitar under my bed, but it goes better and hoping i could come back on steel soon.
but i'm carefull to say that because i'm not trouble free with my health.

but anyway thank you for your interest in it.

greetings

cor

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 11 Nov 2004 1:42 pm

Tony,
I said "Hi" to the imitation(only one "M") Patsy---she said "WHO?"
If y'all ever get a chance to see Tony Prior play, please go! It's inspiring to see him jump from pedal to pedal, and EXTREMELY entertaining when he falls through!