Cor`s Problem

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » 9 Nov 2004 12:14 pm

Danny
Thanks for the update from the Emmons
Co. Your post really makes it pretty
clear.

------------------
Rick Johnson

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 9 Nov 2004 12:28 pm

Cor, I don't think they'll let you do it that way. I think they were saying that they want someone else to give them $4500 BEFORE they'll give you YOUR $4500 back.

In other words, they'd be holding $9000 (on one unbuilt guitar) for (at least) a short period of time, until they were able to turn loose of Cor's portion. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but that was my understanding of it, based on what Danny H. posted several weeks ago.

Rick

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 9 Nov 2004 12:36 pm

well maybe rick,

but let it be said that i found this all as a very bad busyness.

cor

Danny Hullihen · Post by **Danny Hullihen** » 9 Nov 2004 1:02 pm

Yes Rick. That is correct. He will first need to get an order for a guitar like Cor's, then build it, then sell it, and THEN he will issue Cor a refund.

This is the EXACT proceedure as was told to me by Ron Lashley Jr. He also stated that this was the new policy there for refunds.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 9 Nov 2004 1:02 pm

Rick, in much simpler terms.

They apparently, but logically spent the money.
It logically went into parts,

That were likely sold on another guitar.

They seem too be stuborn to just refund it,

Because THEY seem to feel put out for reasons no one else can possibly fathom.

And that can not possibly be based on N.C or US. law.

If they get the other money from another purchaser, they apparently would then pay him with it
i.e. take from Peter to pay Paul

Seeming]y ignoring the facts that :

Long ago and without a doubt a steel of a close enough set up,
using the parts previously earmarked for Cor's place on the build list,
was built and sold to someone else.

And the money for this steel seemingly went somewhere. more parts or saleries etc ; perhaps.

But NOT to Cor... because the steel was APPARENTLY
not the EXACT copedent or color as his order....

Of course this ignores the fact that parts is parts...
if it wasn't shipped the parts are in their posesion.
They have lost nothing, another buyer or buyer wil undoubtedlt buy steels using the exact same parts.

It is illogical that the parts for 1 fully loaded
10+10 D-12 steel ,
could not all be sold through the purchase of 2 D-10s.....
it's not lik ethere isn't usually a waiting list...
somebody already has been playing a steel or steels built with the exact same parts earmorked for Cor's steel.

And apparently ignoring the fact the poor guy was seriously injured in a car accident and can't play anymore.
They apparently don't give a flying ***** about epople.

So much for christian charity... DUH.
Who cares he's from Holland, they're too liberal there,
and too far away to matter.

***************************
Cor what was the copedent and spec for this instrument?
**************************
What did you order that is so HARD to find another buyer for...?

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 09 November 2004 at 01:13 PM.]

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 9 Nov 2004 1:09 pm

pretty standard copendent emmons setup for pedals and knees and the franklin on the 4th pedal thats al

ooh and above i wrote the color and the extra options

but why was ron jr telling me at the end of may 2004 that the guitar was ready and when i got help from the great respected Danny hullihen saying that it wasn't build
maybe he wasn't expected it that i got some help from danny.

but anyway in my eyes it has nothing to do with a new policy and by the time i send there the money they didn't have a policy like this
also not a orderform or whatever.

so to me it sounds al very strange.

cor

cor[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 09 November 2004 at 01:11 PM.][This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 09 November 2004 at 01:16 PM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 9 Nov 2004 1:15 pm

I have followed this thread with increasing anxiety. If a buyer paid for a product and didn't receive it or a refund, thats wrong!

I can't conceive of any company that values it's reputation that would deliberately ignore an accusation such as this!

What is the real story here?
www.genejones.com

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 9 Nov 2004 1:16 pm

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 09 November 2004 at 01:17 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 9 Nov 2004 1:17 pm

Please be specific
D-10, an S-10 for $4,500 seems WAY steep.
Emmons set up, but Franklin 4th pedal?
How many knees and pedals?
Laquer or mica?

Put the whole thing in one place all at once please.

So far only a Franklin pedal seems the only slightly odd thing,
and that is only 1 bellcrank, rod and tuner away from the Big E set up.
Nothing particularly custom about it.

Yep, Gene, right on the mark.
Pride cometh before a fall me thinks.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 09 November 2004 at 01:19 PM.]

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 9 Nov 2004 1:30 pm

okay david one more time than

D10 natural birdseye mica finish
8 floor pedals
5knee's
counterforce on both necks
humbuckers
chrome fretboards and chrome backplate behind the emmons logo

so no more questions about the guitar looks like i'm sick of it

cor

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 9 Nov 2004 1:30 pm

Oh, so somebody would need to be able to tie up $4500 for 12 months (and risk never seeing it again) in order for Cor to get his money back. In other words, the new policy is: No refunds for Dutchmen.

Wow.

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 9 Nov 2004 1:35 pm

yes rick till now on but Cor isn't stuppid!

maybe they think they are the only smart ones

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 9 Nov 2004 1:47 pm

Thanks Cor, I wasn't trying to agravate you.

8+5 and counterforce, mica... Emmons copedent
since when is this custom...

Seems like they put out these same specs weekly....

What? The chrome is not available all the time,
no one else has bought chrome since it was done.

Which would seem to indicate it is an "office issue", one of attitude,
as opposed to a real manufacturing issue.

We can't be libelous, but this subject certainly makes me bilous...
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 09 November 2004 at 02:32 PM.]

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 9 Nov 2004 1:51 pm

GOOD EVENING TO ALL,question who owns the rights,pattens ect to emmons guitar co? what if they were to say enough,would it be for sale,or could just anyone take it and start building?is it worth a lots?i would say in my thinking yes!! just like sho-bud is own by certain people.is emmons that way? complete different outlook!but would it be interesting to someone enough to want to take it over? just questions? farris

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 9 Nov 2004 2:05 pm

i know david i understand you and also thank you for your help and support here

cor

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 9 Nov 2004 2:07 pm

*[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 09 November 2004 at 02:27 PM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 9 Nov 2004 2:11 pm

And the beat goes on and on and on and on and------!

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 9 Nov 2004 4:38 pm

Even after reading all of these posts.. I still fail to understand.

Cor ordered a guitar to his specs, paid for it in full $4,500.00??

The guitar never showed up and as far as he knows was never built.

QUESTION: Why was the guitar never built?

QUESTION: What is preventing the Emmons Guitar Company Inc from sending back the money. WHat right do they have for keeping it?

I am not sure if I follow this at all..

Is there a short version of this tale and projected outcome??

Thanks!

Bill Miller · Post by **Bill Miller** » 9 Nov 2004 6:29 pm

I've been checking the progress of this discussion now and then but this evening I decided to go through all of the posts. What strikes me as completely bizarre is that Cor originally posted about his situation on July 31 and despite the huge response it has gotten from steel players (and buyers!)from several countries, the Emmons Company has never made any statement or offered any explanation on this forum. It seems pretty much like corporate suicide not to try and clear something like this up. I really don't understand that part of it at all. It's unwise to take sides without knowing all the facts on both sides of an issue but a lot of people...even brand loyal Emmons people must be curious about the silence in Burlington.[This message was edited by Bill Miller on 09 November 2004 at 06:30 PM.]

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 9 Nov 2004 6:52 pm

I can't imagine anyone ordering a new Emmons after reading this thread. If you must have an Emmons, there are plenty of excellent used Emmons guitars available.

t

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Nov 2004 7:17 pm

Danny, we owe a lot to you, and I want to thank you for your post. It's the first glimmer of informative light in this whole dark story. Like the little child in the Hans Christian Andersen tale "The Emperor's New Suit", you have said what, apparently, no one else here would.

For your effort and courage, I salute you.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 9 Nov 2004 7:22 pm

My 1972 Emmons still sounds great and is in fabulous condition and I wouldn't part with it for any amount of money.

I was definitely planning on purchasing a brand NEW EMMONS, top-0-the-line model at the St.Louis show, two years back, and still would like to have one but under these circumstance, Ron Lashley couldn't GIVE ME A FREE Emmons guitar during my remaining lifetime.

The Emmons Guitar Company has just kissed off $4,500 as a result of what I see as shoddy business practices. Too bad. They lost the money and I still have mine in my pocket. They may have won the war with Cor but they lost it with me. Personally, I wouldn't even visit their show room or whatever. To screw over another musician, is like screwing me over. No way!

Has Cor ever considered contacting the United States Department of Consumer Affairs? If he could get a "JUDGEMENT" against the Emmons Company, he could end up owning at least a chunk of it. Just a tho't.

Some effective steps have been suggested in this post but all I continue to hear is whining and sniveling. And THANK YOU very much Eric for what you're about to say here in this post. It was very nice of you. If I failed to make myself clear, regarding my remarks, I apologize, but I see far more talk about "What I want" rather than an outcome that would be productive. Any honest attorney will tell you, that there is very little "justice" in our court system, yet getting a little something is better than a whole lot of NOTHING!
THANKS AGAIN, Eric.[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 10 November 2004 at 10:08 AM.][This message was edited by Ray Montee on 10 November 2004 at 10:17 AM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 9 Nov 2004 8:28 pm

I know Ray doesn't mean "whining and snivelling" in a way detracting from the efforts of those trying to help. I admit it took a while for me to understand the whole situation inre to reciepts, etc, and a sort of dialect barrier.

Ray's pretty conversant in the legal end of things, and his radio show suggestion is very valid.

We all hope Cor gets is money back.

With input like Danny H's and a few others, it's getting down to the nitty gritty of the situation.

I won't live long enough to wear out my Marrs Rebuild thats coming, though I've completely buswhipped my Old PIII. In another 25 years I'll probably be looking at walkers...

EJL

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 9 Nov 2004 9:17 pm

We all know that Lashley has created NEW and recent rules for Refunds.

Does anybody know for sure what the OLD rules are?
It would be nice if a forumite has a copy of an old contract with those rules on them.
There might be some kind of a solution in there.

Hope this helps.

John Davis · Post by **John Davis** » 9 Nov 2004 11:25 pm

"Is there a short version of this tale and projected outcome??"

Tim, why would you want a shorter version?
is 10 pages too much? with the facts getting clearer and clearer?
Repeat questions that have already been answered are not helpful, but we are also now getting some very usefull suggestions as well!

Good morning Ron