Cor`s Problem

Post by **Joey Ace** » 27 Oct 2004 4:24 pm

Thank you so much for your post Danny.
As you know, I was aware of this situation, but kept my promise of confedentiality.

Knowing the facts, it only hurt me more to see some of our members insulting Cor.

I know that your explanation is not hear-say, but based on a direct conversation with Ron. It's very sad, but very true. Thanks again.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 27 Oct 2004 4:42 pm

It appears to me the company is trying to do the right thing according to their company policy and Cor needs help, so in a sense both parties need a way out. Could we as Forum members place the order for the exact guitar and let it be delivered to one of our members and then sell it for Cor? If I understand correctly it is already paid for, is that not right?
Jerry[This message was edited by Jerry Roller on 27 October 2004 at 05:48 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 27 Oct 2004 5:01 pm

OK, so why doesn't Cor just reinstate his order for the same exact guitar at the same exact price and take delivery on it, then sell it? He's already paid for it, so wouldn't have to shell out any more money for it (or would he still have to pay shipping?) I realize he might not get all of his money out of it, but then again, he'd probably come reasonably close to it.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 27 Oct 2004 5:08 pm

This is so immoral. so unjust, so unchristian and so unAmerican. My next guitar will NOT be an Emmons Lashly!

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 27 Oct 2004 5:53 pm

Not that it's important, but I see.

Deciding to have "New Policies" or maybe even "new projected costs and/or waiting periods (outside of a reasonably small percentage)" that change the companies' liability to produce as originally agreed is massively arrogant if not illegal after the checks are cashed.

In this case, you change things after the money has changed hands, it's not cool.

In this case It's going to cost the company more than ten times $4500, not that it will do Cor any good.

My thanks to Mr Davis for making Cor's point more understandable to us "street americans'.

When it was pulled from the "Build List" the check should have been cut and sent. Deductions for check cost, minimal office cost, and postage would be reasonable. Like maybe 5 bucks. Any policy taking money for no consideration, new or not is illegal in any state that I am aware of.

Best thing for a business to do is do what they say they are going to do, when they say they are going to do it, and DO IT.

Somehow I see a dying, desperately struggling business. That's the clear sign they are putting out by taking money for a guitar taken off the "build list".

I wouldn't order anything from them, even COD.

EJL

Johnny Harris · Post by **Johnny Harris** » 27 Oct 2004 6:39 pm

I have pevioulsly defended Emmons in some former posts. I am sorry to say that after reading Danny's post, I can no longer support this company and their policy.
First, to require full payment in advance of building is ridiculous.If all their customers would refuse to pay more than a reasonable down payment, they would change that policy, or go down the tube.
Second, It sounds like Cor ordered a pretty standard guitar, and I have to wonder how many of this exact spec. guitar the company has already built since the order was canceled.
Next, since the guitar wasn't already in production, the Emmons company lost nothing in the cancelation.Matter of fact, it seems like they gained forty-five hundred bucks.
Then to kick a man who is down on his health is just too much for me.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 27 Oct 2004 6:42 pm

" Could we as Forum members place the order for the exact guitar and let it be delivered to one of our members and then sell it for Cor?"

I don't understand, Jerry. Are you saying we should collect $4500 send and send it to Emmons?

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 27 Oct 2004 6:57 pm

Cor, tell them to build it and ship it to Tarheel Music, 329 E. Market St. Smithfield, NC 27577. I'll sell it for you, for as much as I can get for it, and I'll send you 100% of the receipts. I CANNOT guarantee that I can get $4500, but I will give you all that it brings. There are numerous people on this Forum that will vouch for my personal and business integrity, and my objective is only to help you and bring about some resolution to this mess.[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 27 October 2004 at 08:00 PM.]

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 27 Oct 2004 7:15 pm

No Joey, that is not what I said. I said it was my understanding the guitar is paid for and according to what I read in an earlier post, an identical order needs to be placed and they will build it No need to pay again.
Jerry

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 27 Oct 2004 7:16 pm

And then it would go back on the "Build List"?

Wasn't it on there for a while to begin with?

Barring there wasn't a "New Policy" in the interim.. Maybe like a $4500 "Relisting Charge"...

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 27 October 2004 at 08:18 PM.]

Post by **Joey Ace** » 27 Oct 2004 7:18 pm

Rick,
Danny offered to do that months ago.
That's the problem. No guitar. No refund.

Jerry,
My understanding is a new order requires new payment.
If your plan would work, then Rick or Danny should be able to get it. [This message was edited by Joey Ace on 27 October 2004 at 08:22 PM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 27 Oct 2004 7:22 pm

Oh.

This is the darnedest policy I've ever heard of.

I'll gladly place the identical order, but would I then have to put up another $4500? Doesn't that make $9,000 they'd be holding at one time? For a guitar that hasn't been built yet? Geez.[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 27 October 2004 at 08:39 PM.]

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 27 Oct 2004 7:34 pm

Most newly built guitars have an approximate waiting period.
Has this elapsed ?
-John

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 27 Oct 2004 9:00 pm

Danny, are you still an Emmons dealer?
Are any of the rest of the good folks on here Emmons dealers?
This whole situation stinks, and I have a couple of questions. I called the company, back when this thread was only a couple of pages long. I spoke with Rebecca, who told me that Cor hadn't sent the money at all!!??
So do any of you Emmons dealers have any NEW Emmons guitars? How long did you have to wait for them? How much front money did you have to put up? See, I can't figure why Cor would have had to send the ENTIRE 4500.00, prior to getting, or in Cor's case, NOT getting, his guitar built.
So how about it, Emmons dealers? Any more of you out there? Care to comment, as Danny has done?

John Davis · Post by **John Davis** » 27 Oct 2004 10:56 pm

Danny thank you so much for putting some real light on this subject,I was beginning to think I was on my own here!And I applaud all you others for at last seeing the injustice here!!
Now how about some practical help?
Can anyone reccomend a good debt collector in the Burlington area that would act for Cor? I have been trying for weeks to get him a lawyer but they are not interested I guess the amount of money involved is too small !
As I have said before litigation at 3000miles on a limited budget is impossible, and I believe the Emmons company knows it too!!
Good to see the power of this forum in action!!!

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 27 Oct 2004 11:28 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:04 PM.]

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 27 Oct 2004 11:53 pm

No Laywers on this forum that can help Cor?
It's not to bring down Emmons, but to see if this policy is allowed in the States. Uphere in Europe this is not possible. If there will be a fundraising, let it then be for this case.
Cor, I hope there will be a solution, you deserve it!!
Johan

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 28 Oct 2004 12:42 am

The weirdest policy i have ever heard of.Like Johan said in The Netherlands this is not possible.
And is it not so that if a company is changing their policy they are obligated to put that down in their contracts.
If i am buying a guitar from a company in 2003 and in 2004 they are changing their policy they still will have to obey the contract.And that contract is set on the date that i did put in my order......2003.

It's o.k. when a company changes their policy.But if they do so they will have to let everybody know that they ere changing them.In all of the posts above i can see that none of you knew about this change.Neither did i.
And i agree with everybody that says that Emmons should have answered to Cor or any attorney.And till now they have not done so.

And as far as the ordering goes....i am a steel builder myself but i still like the sound of an Emmons PP.
And i like the looks of that new one that's on the site.Guess i will have to wait on how this story ends.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6[This message was edited by Ronald ! on 28 October 2004 at 01:43 AM.]

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 28 Oct 2004 1:33 am

If all this really is true, it's the worst business practices I have ever heard of - a family-run operation referring to "company policies" stopping them from refunding money. Totally ridiculous - the guy IS the company! Not even a politician could come up with that much bull####.

...tonight, I will peel the Lashley decal off of my Legrande.

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 28 Oct 2004 2:51 am

What`s going on here?are Emmons calling Cor a liar? now Rebeca saye that Cor did not even send the money ,i would have thought if that was the case,they could say that about all their sales that have gone wrong and seems up to now they are getting away with it.Why i am saying this is a good friend of mine had a problem with Emmons who made promisses they did not keep,they gave him a price of a new guitar and he had to wait for over a year, and in that time the price went up,their excuse, he told me was the parts were costing more to be made.I know this is getting away from the original topic but if that is the case whats to stop other steel manufacts doing the same,thank the lord most of them are good honest people who i am sure would not change their word on prices with out letting you know when you are buying a steel from them.I do not mean to run any one down but honesty is the best policy.

JG

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 28 Oct 2004 5:29 am

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 28 Oct 2004 6:44 am

Thanx Danny for settin' things straight
i think i understand better why Bobbie has chosen Mullen & relegated Emmons elsewhere
it's still a shame that Emmons Co has'nt stood up & been heard
their silence is eloquent
so are customers & their hard earned money[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 28 October 2004 at 11:04 AM.]

Danny Hullihen · Post by **Danny Hullihen** » 28 Oct 2004 7:00 am

I just noticed the post above this one from Rains Steel Guitars. Some of you might be thinking that as an unappropriate advertisement? However, I believe I can relate to this. Cor emailed me a while back about Rains Steel Guitars, and I could tell by the tone in his writing that he was extreamely touched by an offer they made him to build a steel guitar for him at no cost to him. A more nobel jesture than that I can't imagine! The offer made by Rains shows me that there is indeed a genuine concern for what has happened to a fellow steel player, and a great deal of compassion for Cor on a personal level. Although very commendable, the sad part is, (or at least from what I understand here) Cor is disabled to a point now where he can no longer play the steel guitar anymore, and that, dear Forumites, is the most tragic part in all of this. Financial losses can be quite painful, and in some cases, something you might never be able to forget about. However, I don't think there can be anything much more painful than waking up one day having to deal with the fact that you will never again in your lifetime, be able to do something you loved so much! In this case, playing the steel guitar.

Regarding Emmons Guitar Company, to even think that a person and/or company would come up with such a ludicrious policy like that is beyond ridiculous! "Policy"? Perhaps that's one way of putting it, but I don't think so. When I consider the detailed requiste in this case, albeit ridiculous, I would hardly call that any kind of policy. I would call that, "let's make up the rules as we go"! Here again, the Emmons guitar Company is offering Cor a full refund of his money, but in order for that to happen someone has to place an order for a guitar "exactly the same" as what Cor had on order. Go figure? The stories I could tell about the many unethical business practices at the Emmons guitar company would make you all very ill!

I know this is all very unsetteling to all of us. Not only because of what has and is happening to our friend Cor, but also because of what it does to our many years of faith, pride, and dedication to Emmons Guitars, and its founders. It's kind of like a marraige gone bad... a love/hate situation that just rips you up inside.

The part that bothers me most about this is that Ron has been afforded several oportunities to try to make this right with Cor. Preferably with a refund, but if not that,then other options as was offered. Unfortunately, it appears at this time Ron doesn't want to entertain ANY offers or options, not even correspondence with Cor.

I don't think there are any doubts in our minds that the folks at Emmons have been reading these posts, and I'm sure they have. Perhaps it's a simple matter of they cannot afford to refund Cor's money? Hey, that can happen to any company, and it's understandable. However, to just ignore Cor, and all these posts that are saying, "hey Emmons, don't you care even a little bit" well guys... I'm sorry to say, but it just doesn't leave much faith in them doing the right thing here.

The Emmons guitar and name is an icon in this industry, and has been for many decades. This is a guitar company that literally set the "industry standards" for tone for others to follow. I don't think there's a steel guitar manufacturer out there that would disagree with that. No question about it, the Emmons Push-Pull "tone" was the holy grail many others have been trying to copy for years, and today, I believe some have sincerely accomplished that. Regardless of all the above, I sincerely feel it would be a great loss to many if the company were to fold. When I think about the countless injustices that have been done to many (self included) by the Emmons Guitar company, I must agree with you that they certainly don't deserve to be in business anymore, and Cor's deal has really put the icing on the cake, so to speak. When I think about the big picture here, had any other steel guitar company done repeatedly what Emmons has done, they would have been forced out of business long ago. Personally speaking, I think they are a heluvalot luckier right now than they realize.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 28 Oct 2004 7:29 am

Maybe they simply don't have the money.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Oct 2004 7:54 am

But, they do have guitars, don't they?