Doctor Z has finally done it! Surgical Steel

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Jan 2016 1:20 pm

John and Tony,
Working on getting the weight. I'm pretty sure the Emmonence speaker is a Neo.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Jan 2016 2:44 pm

Dustin Rhodes wrote: There are lots of points to argue here.

Tons of steel players use amps either with no mid knob or very limited mid knobs (pretty much any tube amp out there).

Respectfully, I'd say well over 90% of amps steelers use have mid controls that work very well, so there must be a good reason.

Six string pickup selections have little to do with midrange response and everything to do with treble content and attack.

They also have a lot to do with fattening up the sound, which is hard to do on a pedal steel when you can't scoop out the mids.

Not having a midrange control doesn't limit your ability to emphasize or deemphasize mids. You just have to understand how your eq works and adjust it and your overall volume accordingly.

Again, I disagree. The typical bass/treeble tone stack or shelving control gives very little mid control unless you're making significant volume changes. Turning the volume up or down to get the tone I want just doesn't work for me.

And speaking as a very very amateur steel player, accomplished 6 string and bass player, and sometimes soundman, semi parametric EQ's more often than not just present an opportunity for guys who don't know what they're doing to hack up what could be a decent sound.

IMHO, it's not rocket science. Anyone who can play pedal steel should be able to learn about tone controls, and how they work. But, as you say, some may not...so they get stuck on an endless road, buying stuff to compensate for their lack of knowledge of their own equipment.

(Thank you for your comments, Dustin. I enjoy the opportunity to explain my "logic".)

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Jan 2016 2:54 pm

Well,
Brad and Randall are recording next week, so hopefully we'll get a sound sample.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 15 Jan 2016 1:28 pm

Surgical Steel head--30 lbs
1X15 speaker cab in larger cab--34 lbs.
1X15 speaker cab in smaller cab--32 lbs.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 15 Jan 2016 1:49 pm

Just checked, the speaker is Neo.

John Sluszny · Post by **John Sluszny** » 15 Jan 2016 4:19 pm

John Billings wrote:Surgical Steel head--30 lbs
1X15 speaker cab in larger cab--34 lbs.
1X15 speaker cab in smaller cab--32 lbs.

Thank you John !

Dan Robinson · Post by **Dan Robinson** » 16 Jan 2016 9:44 pm

John Billings wrote:"The lack of a mid control was an immediate deal breaker for me, "

Doesn't need one. It's perfectly voiced for steel. Doc's pre-amp designs are amazing.

Exactly, same as it doesn't bother players who like these fine amps.

I don't have the dough to have Doc Z build one for me, but I can't wait to hear one. If it sounds good, it is good.

Dan

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 17 Jan 2016 3:18 pm

The Sarno Octal V8 sure sounds good despite the lack of a mid control.

Phillip Broste · Post by **Phillip Broste** » 17 Jan 2016 10:10 pm

Dustin nails it. You don't always need a mids knob to adjust mids if the preamp eq is voiced well. And in the case of two knobs, more bass and treble = less mids.

Sure lots of EQ options can be nice, but sometimes simplicity is desired. I get some cool sounds out an Ampeg rocket and that has just one tone knob.

I bet this is a killer amp! Yet another fine piece of cool gear to lust after. I have to say, the next steel amp I'll get is gonna be a milkman, but this looks pretty great.

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 20 Jan 2016 11:25 am

ajm, Doc has asked several of us local players to come in and try out the amp and tell what we like, need, want or hate about it. Plus as John mentioned, Doc is working with Randall Currie. I believe Travis Toy will be playing through the Surgical Steel, as part of something Eminence is putting on (at winter NAMM).

Unquestionably, no one amp will fit everyone's taste. Dr. Z says he's looking at younger guys like Robert Randolph who are taking pedal steel to another level and hoping to offer something to them, as well as those who play more traditionally.

Gerry Simon · Post by **Gerry Simon** » 20 Jan 2016 2:13 pm

My band has 3 Dr.Z amps...2 for the guitar players and I play thru an ezg50...it's the cleanest amp he made up to now and sounds great...hope I can come up from Kent sometime and try one!!

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 20 Jan 2016 2:38 pm

Gerry, I almost got to try the EGZ50 - one had just been returned from a review, but something was wrong and alas, no test. I did try a couple other Dr. Z amps, but the Surgical Steel always came out on top for tone.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 20 Jan 2016 2:57 pm

Dan,
I enjoyed hearing you play today!
JB

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 20 Jan 2016 3:00 pm

Thanks, John, mostly just noodling up and down the neck to hear the amp's tone. Would've been happy to let you try my steel - pretty much standard set-up.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 20 Jan 2016 4:26 pm

Gerry,
I pm'd you. I can set you up with Doc.
JB

Cameron Reagin · Post by **Cameron Reagin** » 21 Jan 2016 7:46 pm

I currently own two Dr Zs, a early Carmen Ghia and a Mazerati, both of which are wonderful amps in my opinion. If the tone stack in this amp is anything like that in the Ghia and Mazerati (both only having a tone control), not having a mid knob shouldn't be an issue. However, I'm more of a guitar player and not the most experienced steel player, so you can take my opinion on the matter with a grain of salt.

Cameron Reagin · Post by **Cameron Reagin** » 21 Jan 2016 7:48 pm

I currently own two Dr Zs, a early Carmen Ghia and a Mazerati, both of which are wonderful amps in my opinion. If the tone stack in this amp is anything like that in the Ghia and Mazerati (both only having a tone control), not having a mid knob shouldn't be an issue. However, I'm more of a guitar player and not the most experienced steel player, so you can take my opinion on the matter with a grain of salt.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 22 Jan 2016 11:59 am

Well, has anyone gone to NAMM? The amp is at the Emminence display.

Mark Fowler · Post by **Mark Fowler** » 23 Jan 2016 9:25 am

A grown up Route 66 then.

The Route 66 has EF86 preamp and 12AX7 phase inverter, pair of KT66 power tubes with ultra linear output.

Volume, treble and bass controls.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 24 Jan 2016 1:23 pm

Nobody at NAMM?

Kevin Milner · Post by **Kevin Milner** » 25 Jan 2016 12:24 pm

I went to NAMM but when I stopped by only the quilters were in use, he hadn't tried out the Z yet. Maybe he did later?

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 1 Feb 2016 1:14 pm

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=295952

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 3 Feb 2016 1:15 am

if we are thinking about mids like an old stereo set, yeh , we need a mid knob. If we are thinking about an efficiently designed TONE stack then NO, we don't need a mid knob.

I would expect a discount with one less knob though...

Mark Fowler · Post by **Mark Fowler** » 5 Feb 2016 2:12 pm

Tone circuit for Route 66 is like a Twin T similar to a very old stereo circuit. I suspect the new steel amp is this way also.

1MA volume with .0068uf cap across pin 2&3, 1MB bass pot with .01 cap from wiper to wiper of 1MB treble pot & has .0047 cap pin 1 to ground off treble.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 5 Feb 2016 2:14 pm

Doc told me today that he has built another prototype with a mid knob it's in testing. We'll see. I really didn't think it needed one.