Tone is in the hands?

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 30 Sep 2004 10:32 am

Ok, I've heard so much about tone being in the hands. How exactly do you achieve tone with your hands? is it where you place your right hand? where/how you pick your strings?
or does most of it come from the left(bar) hand? I'd really like to know because maybe I need to change my hand technique(sp).
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Cor Muizer Jr · Post by **Cor Muizer Jr** » 30 Sep 2004 10:56 am

hi terry,

you just said the answer yourself

it is how to pick and how hard or soft pick the strings
also very important where you hold or lay your hand (right hand)
closer to the pick up will result in a thinner sound (higher sharper sound)
closer to the maybe 24 fret it will give you a more richer sound ( more color )
also your left hand (barhand) playing on the frets or slide over the fret will give you a different sound

play just on the fret with a little rollin' from left to right and reverse giving you the vibrato you need.

try these things and hear the difference.

greetings

cor

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 30 Sep 2004 12:34 pm

If possible, from your heart to your hands.

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 30 Sep 2004 12:49 pm

That's what they said about Jimmy Day - He had his hands and feet connected right to his heart!

Kind Regards, Walter

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

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Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Sep 2004 3:52 pm

How exactly do you achieve tone with your hands?

For the vast majority of us, just years and years of practice. There's no short-cuts, no special gizmos, and no secret techniques other than really listening to what you're doing. When most of us start out playing pedal steel, we're too busy "thinking and doing" to pay a whole lot of attention to how we sound. We have to think about everything we're doing. A and B pedal, strings 3,5,& 8, volume 2/3, bar on fret 7, let off the A pedal, mute after the slide back, etc., etc., etc.. It's only after we start doing most things automatically (without thinking about each and every one), that we can really pay attention to the sounds we're creating. The only aids I can think of that might help you along faster are to play with good musicians, and to record your playing occasionally...and then listen to it...I mean really listen! Close your eyes and remove all distractions, and just listen to the stuff you've recorded.

When you start to sound like one of your idols, even if it's only on a phrase or two, you'll know you're getting there!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 30 Sep 2004 4:08 pm

The angle of attack of the picks, the strength of the attack, and the point where you strike the string all have an enormous effect on tone. Play with those three variables, and you'll start to hear the the tone pocket you like best. It's there in your guitar, just waiting for you to find it with your hands.

Remember that the right hand position that produces your optimal tone can change as you move the bar with the left hand. Tone comes from both hands.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 30 Sep 2004 7:34 pm

Tone is very much in the hands. Use them to rotate the knobs on your amplifier.

Mostly, your tone is in the technique of your hands, some in your gear.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 30 Sep 2004 8:12 pm

You can analyze it and parse it and subject it to the rigors of scientific investigation all you want, but it's really pretty simple. FWIW, here's my take on it:

To become a good player you need to be able to play the NOTES you intend to. To become a better player, you need for those notes to SPEAK on their own -- people need to say 'YEAH'. To become better yet you need to be able to shape whether the notes are short and staccato or smooth and legato -- and know when to use each (yes, until people say 'YEAH') and to be able to adjust the tonal qualities or timbre of the notes you're playing by JUST USING YOUR HANDS and learn to make notes jump out at you or just lie there peacefully at your command.

Once you have those skills you will play the right notes exactly like you want them to sound, in a way that pleases the ear of the listener. If you choose notes well you will be an excellent player. The WHAT and the HOW are both important.

It's like learning to speak. You can be able to pronounce any word without knowing how to make a sensible sentence, but you won't be an effective speaker until you've learned WHAT TO SAY.

And most of it is in the hands. Buddy Emmons can get better tone out of a 2x4 with strings stretched across it than most people can with a $4000 guitar. There's a reason.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 30 Sep 2004 8:33 pm

Tone in the hands?
YES.
How to do it?
PRACTICE. And hope you can do it.

Years ago I was playing around on a steel at Harry Guffee's shop in CT. I guess it was after 1976 because I remember he had some Kline guitars for sale.
I played something, and a guy who was watching said, "how did you do that?" So I explained, which strings, and which fret, and which pedal, and he said "No! How did you get it to SOUND like that?"
And at that point I realized that I had "tone."
And you ask me how and I can't tell you. I use pics that are too thin, and a bar that some say is too big.
But... it comes from having the technique and then playing so it "sounds right." That's all I can tell ya!

JW

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 1 Oct 2004 3:14 am

I think Larry Bell hit it on the head - it's not about producing one perfect, even tone for all the notes, the same for every one, that people notice - it's the ability to produce tonal variations, and to make certain notes "pop out" from the mix at will. I know a lot more about rock guitar than pedal steel (so far), but staccato picking, changing where you pick and how hard, swelling notes with the pedal to take out the attack, how you slide into and out of notes with the bar, the duration you hold each note before sliding, vibrato, they all matter. The best players can get to more variations, within their own personal style. Listening to and imitating other instruments helps, as does years of fooling around with trying to see how many different ways you can make one note sound. If you want a particular note or phrase to "jump out", how do you plan to do it? And how many different ways have you learned how to do it? It's like the first goal, after you learn the notes, is to play the phrase as smoothly and seamlessly as possible. Then the second goal is to undo the first goal. Some of the best players (saxophonist John Coltrane, guitarists Jeff Beck & Steve Morse, violinist N. Rajam, Ravi Shankar, Bela Fleck come to mind) can literally sound like two, three or more people trading licks with each other. And it's not just some stompbox that does it, unfortunately - I wish they made one of those....[This message was edited by David Mason on 01 October 2004 at 04:47 AM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 1 Oct 2004 3:30 am

I can relate to Winnie's experience, as my own route to "acceptable tone" was like his: I played for a lot of years until one day it "suddenly" clicked in. All of a "sudden" I started playing with a tone and touch that people noticed and, like Larry said, they started saying "Yeah". How did I get there? I don't really know; it was probably by subconsciously doing all the things Larry talked about and if I'd been consciously trying to do them all along, I might have gotten there sooner. But then again, maybe not...

In the meantime, I'd encourage you to listen to as many different types of music as possible, including classical, to just "soak up" the range of expressions, tensions, harmonics, etc. You don't even have to listen to it all "actively" or "analytically"; just soak it up in the background while you're driving, washing dishes, or whatever. It will increase the range of emotional resources available to you so that, later on when your technique "comes of age", you'll actually have "something to say" musically.

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 1 Oct 2004 4:01 am

One time many years ago I was playing Dobro in a bluegrass band in SF at Paul's saloon. I was a really good player but the girl fiddle player said I like what you do but you need better tone. She could not describe it but knew I did not have it.

I began to pick harder, kept it more simple and added more expression into my playing and worked on getting longer sustaining notes when I could. She liked it.

It has not hurt that I also play a Sheerhorn, a Gibson Mastertone and a 67 PP.

Had a friend tell me lastnight and many others over the last couple of years, that he really did not like the new guitar I tried several years ago. Going back to the PP was the cat's meow for them as well as for me.

A little guitar, a little technique, a little amp, a little Hilton, a little Black Box and A WHOLE LOT OF SOUL AND EXPRESSION can get you a little closer to where you want to be.

Larry Behm

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 1 Oct 2004 4:29 am

How do you get to Carnagie Hall?

Practice, practice, practice.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 1 Oct 2004 5:28 am

Larry,

Nice post. When players are able to execute cleanly the notes and chords they love, a good personal tone comes along for the ride. I have never heard an excellent player with a bad tone. Although I may like some players tone better than others, none have a bad tone. To me, bad tone is usually heard at the beginners level until they learn how to block properly and before they master bar control. Setting amps can cause poor tone but that doesn't mean the individual has a personal bad tone if he/she is playing good. It means they don't know how to adjust the amp to emulate what they are sending to it.

Paul

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 1 Oct 2004 9:17 am

It seems we can codify some of the method involved in working toward good tone, pick attack, bar control, and so on. But the expression of personal tone at a "mastery" level seems to me to be happening at a higher level. I think years of playing and seeking develop the connection between the creative mind and the physical body... you could say that "mastery" includes subconcious control of micro-movements of the pick and bar, and great subltlety of pressure and attack... but what I'm referring to is perhaps more etheric. "Playing from the heart" is not just a phrase... I think one of the greatest gifts human beings possess, and can share, is the ability to transcend our knowledge and technical ability to create real beauty, when that higher mental connection is forged and maintained. It's just too bad that it's so hard to learn, or teach!
The first time I saw Buddy E. play live, I got to sit directly in front of him, within a foot of his guitar. I could see many of his techniques, but beyond the pick and bar movements, on a whole different level, one could actually observe mastery. An aura, or awareness of the fantastic connection he had with his instrument. There's no way to express this without sounding new-agey, but there's a higher connection between our "mind" and our hands, and for me that's where real "tone" comes from in all the masters I've admired. I keep trying and listening, hoping to get closer in my own little world...

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 1 Oct 2004 10:08 am

When you start talking about playing from the "heart" as being some sort of incredient to being a masterful player, I take exception. I have never met any serious player on any instrument that wasn't playing from the heart, and playing with as much soul as could be mustered. Heart and soul are usually the FIRST capabilities a player has. We're born with that and by the time we are adults, most of us are overloaded with it. The inability to convey that heart and soul is a lack of technique. No amount of heart and soul can offset bad intonation or sloppy picking. Buddy Emmons owns arguably the best technique and musical imagination that has ever existed in the history of steel guitar, so OF COURSE his heart is going to come through. And the same with others such as Jimmy Day, Lloyd Green, Paul, etc. These masters are at the absolute pinnacle of technical proficiency. I'm sure many of us have just as much heart and soul as they do, just not the same ability to deliver it.

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Jeff's Jazz

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Oct 2004 10:50 am

Jeff's got it
I've never met a beginning steel player who wasn't as much in love with the sound of the steel guitar as anything on earth. Moreso than any other instrument I'm aware of. When they sit at the feet of a master, as Mark and I have many times, the pure joy and ecstasy rival any experience I've ever had. It's mystical and primeval -- almost religious -- cuts right down to your soul. Anyone who can feel that feeling (and I believe that's most of us who are serious about the steel guitar) CAN learn to deliver that same moving performance, but most DON'T.

WHY????? Because it requires days upon weeks upon months upon years of honing the skills. Note that I didn't say PRACTICE. Most folks don't practice in such a way to improve their connection to the instrument. Many are more hung up with learning this song or that lick to really concentrate. It requires the player to be self-critical, but objective about where you're at and where you want to be. Most people either 1) don't know where they want to go musically and/or 2) aren't willing to spend the time required to learn what needs to be learned. Many of us have heard the story about Buddy Emmons practicing nothing but harmonics for HOURS without stopping. THAT'S THE KIND OF COMMITMENT THAT'S REQUIRED and the price that must be payed to get there. Most players simply don't have the patience to try however long it takes to master all the various techniques that are required to make the joyful noise they hear in their head. That's what Byrd and Emmons and Day and Paul and . . . all the masters we know and love to hear have done. They've paid the dues and now they can play the blues.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Mike Scaggs · Post by **Mike Scaggs** » 1 Oct 2004 11:50 am

Try different bar pressures too. Also, if you are sliding your bar instead of rolling your bar that will make a big difference in your vibrato as well.

My 2 cents

-m

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 2 Oct 2004 10:50 am

Jeff, and Larry, I couldn't agree with you more. What I'm trying to say is that the devlopment of the connection of the "heart" or "soul" to the physical performance is an element that's often left out of any practice routine, and frankly rarely even discussed. Practicing licks, phrases, bar control, attack, etc. Are the tools of self expression, and good players certainly all develop the soulful part of their delivery over time... but what I'm advocating is the practice of that "heart connection" along with the other tools. There's an excellent book about this pusuit: "Effortless Mastery", by the brillant Pianist Kenny Werner. At one point he went to a highly regard teacher who listened to him play, and said "you have great technique. Now I want you to play nothing but this one note for two weeks"... and eventually he started to see whole worlds inside that single note that he had missed in the pursuit of chops. There's a whole lot of inspiration in that book- highly recommended.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 2 Oct 2004 11:34 am

At the risk of sounding like Bobbe Seymour, what is "TONE?" David Lindley can play slide on some crummy Japanese lap steel, and get GREAT tone. Ry Cooder has been fooling with weird pickup/amp combinations forever, and I have YET to hear him have "bad" tone. Lloyd Green uses the same guitar, same amp, same monster tone. Buddy Emmons gets a different guitar, but you still hear Buddy's "tone."
So does "tone" mean the sound that identifies us, as us? (Sorry, Pogo) Knob settings on an amp? Or is it knowledge of the instrument, and familiarity with its technique, to play it pretty good?
Jus' wonderin'...

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 2 Oct 2004 12:35 pm

Priceless Gentlemen
Terry you hit an artery

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 2 Oct 2004 8:49 pm

I believe all the above is way short of the above mentioned goal of achieving tone, IF you can't reach a high enough level of confidence. Yet, all of the above is critical in developing that very mentioned high level of confidence.

Bill Stafford · Post by **Bill Stafford** » 3 Oct 2004 5:51 am

Three very simple steps involved in "your" "tone".
1: Put away all your electric steel guitars and other "tone" (?) shaping gadgets.
2: Obtain a fairly decent acoustic six string Hawaiian steel guitar. (Not one with those metal resonators either as that shapes the sound you hear too).
3: Practice on this acoustic instrument until the "tone" which represents you is heard to your satisfaction-that will take a long time because most of us will never be satisfied. Have to strike a happy medium. When you hear a pleasing sound coming from that acoustic steel, it will be transferred to the electric instrument of your choice.

Bill Stafford

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 3 Oct 2004 7:03 am

I believe all the above is way short of the above mentioned goal of achieving tone, IF you can't reach a high enough level of confidence.

Hmmm, I think maybe that's my main problem.

although I do have more confidence in my playin since I started back after a 2 year layoff. but I get extremely nervous when playin in front of people and can't hit a right note to save my life.

Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Wayne Morgan · Post by **Wayne Morgan** » 3 Oct 2004 8:11 am

"TONE"
Man I love this thread, and the way you guys express your feelings on it. all of you guys have personal tone, but I think the tone comes from the nose or at least goes to the nose, 'cause my playing stinks
Love this forum and the people that post in it. b0b,, thank you !
Wayne