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Topic: Pickblockers' Question, Paul Franklin info... |
John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2015 1:05 pm |
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I have questions regarding players who are primarily pick blockers, ala Paul Franklin or Joe Wright.
I'm told in pick blocking, you keep your 3 picks on the strings for muting, and lift only to play a note. The pick returns to the string simultaneously as the next note is picked.
In licks that require more than 3 strings, I assume the group of picks are lifted and moved to a new string set.
This is a Paul Franklin lick from Buck n Merle. Originally in D, I transposed to C for ease. The tempo is 126. Paul plays these licks with ease and clarity, no ringing notes.
This occurs at :40 in the track.
Here is the track: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FcixLThsOZM
I can palm block this lick at slower tempos but have difficulty blocking this fast, and my tone gets dampened. I'm experimenting with pick blocking and like the tone. My difficulty is holding TI while playing M.
This is a nice piece by Paul, but these note sequences are common in steel playing.
I'd like to hear how you guys finger this.
The questions are:
1. Do you strictly keep the picks in the strings, lifting only to play the notes? Or is there some hovering and palming even for pick blockers?
2. End of measure 1, the repeating ascending scale from G to C, is on 3 strings, and needs to be played without ring over from previous strings. How to achieve this clarity?
3. When do you move the group of 3 picks to the next string set? I've written the fingering to have the first 3 notes all middle, which lands your thumb on Str 8. It can be done in the opposite by playing the first 3 notes M-I-T and then shifting. How would you pick the first part of the lick? The order of fingers affects the muting.
4. Would you keep the thumb down on Str 8 or jump it up during the scale?
5. Anyone palmers do alternate with M-T throughout?
Thanks in advance, John
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Last edited by John Goux on 18 Dec 2015 2:55 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2015 2:29 pm Re: Pickblockers' Question, Paul Franklin info...
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I'm not close to a 100% pick blocker (maybe 50% or less) and I wonder if anybody really is 100%.
| John Goux wrote: |
2. End of measure 1, the repeating ascending scale from G to C, is on 3 strings, and needs to be played without ring over from previous strings. How to achieve this clarity?
4. Would you keep the thumb down on Str 8 or jump it up during the scale? |
If I pick block the GABC GABC scale at the end of the first bar, I block the both the G and the A with the thumb pick. So yes, the thumb has to move very fast from string 8 to string 7.
| John Goux wrote: |
| 3. When do you move the group of 3 picks to the next string set? I've written the fingering to have the first 3 notes all middle, which lands your thumb on Str 8. It can be done in the opposite by playing the first 3 notes M-I-T and then shifting. How would you pick the first part of the lick? The order of fingers affects the muting. |
I played the second note (E..D) with the thumb, then M I T. For blocking I use the left hand on this and almost every descending phrase: pulling the bar toward me and letting the left hand index finger mute behind the tip of the bar. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2015 3:03 pm
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Hola Earnest.
So you play the GAB(C) GAB(C) as T-I-M and use the thumb pick to mute Str 8 and 7 with the front and back side of the thumb pick?
John |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2015 3:06 pm
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| Anyone use the left hand thumb(bar hand) to mute the lowest string 8 in that sequence? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2015 3:12 pm
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| John Goux wrote: |
| mute Str 8 and 7 with the front and back side of the thumb pick? |
I only use one side of the thumb pick. I think it would fall off if I pull it toward me to pick or mute. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 18 Dec 2015 6:29 pm
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IMHO, tying yourself to one method may actually hamper you, so do what works for you. I think a player should use pick blocking (when that works), palm blocking (when that works), and bar-tracking (when that works). Playing fast and clean comes with practice - lots of it, and with these 3 "tools" in your bag, you should be able to handle most any lick.  |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2015 12:37 pm
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John,
I agree with Donny that both palm-blocking and pick-blocking are useful.
Years ago, after hearing some blazing fast solos by Paul Franklin, I decided that I needed to learn “pick-blocking†to play solos too fast for palm-blocking.
After spending many hours trying to “pick-block†with only my fingerpicks and not getting any speed whatsoever, I bought an instructional video from Joe Wright. I soon realized that the term “pick-blocking†is rather misleading; there is a lot more to it than just literally blocking the strings with one’s fingerpicks; that only works part of the time.
It would be more accurate to call it “fingerpick plus fingertip plus bar-hand blockingâ€â€”but that term is a bit unwieldy, so let’s call it “Pick-blocking Plusâ€.
The four key elements of “Pick-blocking Plus†(from Joe Wright’s video):
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1. “Literal Pick-blocking†(blocking with just the fingerpicks).
Examples:
- If you have just picked the 3rd string (for example) with your index finger, and you are going to pick it again, then the index fingerpick itself blocks the 3rd string when it comes down to strike it the second time. I’m sure that virtually all players already do this basic form of “literal pick-blockingâ€.
- If you have just picked a string with your index finger, and you are next going to pick a higher string with your index finger, you can block the still-ringing lower string with your other fingerpick or thumbpick. This will also work for picking first a higher, then a lower string. Many players probably already do this form of “literal pick-blocking†on slow or moderate tempo songs.
However, “literal pick-blocking†isn’t fast enough to work well on many up-tempo songs—which is where a more advanced form of pickblocking is needed…
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2. “Pick-blocking Plus†(blocking with your fingertips).
Examples:
- On an up-tempo song, if you have just picked the 3rd string (for example) with your index finger, and you are next going to pick a lower (such as the 4th string) with your index finger, then you would block the still-ringing 3rd string with the fingertip of your index finger—as it comes down to pick the adjacent 4th string.
- On an up-tempo song, if you have just picked the 3rd string with your middle finger, and you are next going to pick a lower string (such as the 4th string) with your middle finger, you could block the still-ringing 3rd string with the fingertip of your middle finger OR the fingertip of your ring-finger.
This “fingertip blocking†is not quick and easy to learn to do (at least it wasn't for me). It requires careful adjustments of the blade angle of your fingerpicks to allow your fingertips to contact the strings, as well as developing extremely precise and economical picking motions.
Watch video close-ups of Paul Franklin or Joe Wright and note the precision of their finger movements.
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3. “Thumb-blocking Plus†(Blocking with the side of your thumb-tip).
Examples:
- If you have just picked the 8th string (for example) with your thumb, and you are next going to pick a higher string (such as the 7th string) with your thumb, you can block the still-ringing 8th string with the side of your thumb-tip (the flesh of the thumb, not the thumbpick) as you bring your thumb down to strike the 7th string.
- If you are picking a lower string (such as the 9th string) after picking the 8th string, you can block the still-ringing 8th string with one of your fingerpicks.
Thumb-tip blocking on up-tempo tunes requires you to keep your thumb very close to the strings. To facilitate this, many pick-blockers use thumbpicks with very short blades and small pick-bands—such as the Herco Blue Thumbpicks or the Fred Kelly Speed Thumbpicks.
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4. Bar-hand blocking includes blocking with:
- The tip of the bar-hand middle finger: "bar-tracking"
- The edge of the bar-hand thumb
- Lifting the back of the bar
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Joe thoroughly and patiently explains all of the above with very good close-ups and many exercises in his video on “pick blockingâ€, which I highly recommend. I believe that the current title of Joe’s video is “Palm/Pick Blocking Conceptsâ€, at: http://pedalsteel.com/ashop/index.php
I’m sure that Paul Franklin’s instructional material on how to pick block is very good too; it was unavailable when I was trying to learn pick-blocking, so I bought Joe Wright's video.
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Some great examples of “Pick-blocking Plusâ€:
- Joe Wright playing Rocky Top: “Rocky Top - Joe Wright†http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNZv3V1xgLY
- Paul Franklin with “The New Nashville Cats on TNN- Pick It Apart" (at 190 bpm!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyR99JCXJMw
- “Barbara Mandrell -- Steel Guitar Rag†https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2M_J16z9sk
-Dave
Last edited by Dave Magram on 20 Dec 2015 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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John Alexander
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Posted 19 Dec 2015 4:56 pm Re: Pickblockers' Question, Paul Franklin info...
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| John Goux wrote: |
| 3. When do you move the group of 3 picks to the next string set? I've written the fingering to have the first 3 notes all middle, which lands your thumb on Str 8. It can be done in the opposite by playing the first 3 notes M-I-T and then shifting. How would you pick the first part of the lick? The order of fingers affects the muting. |
Since the third note is not being picked, there is an extra moment of free time at that point to move the hand into the next grip to pick the fourth and following notes. I prefer to alternate fingers rather than pick successive notes with the same finger, so would probably play the first two notes I-T or M-I, then shift and play the rest of the measure as you've written it. The fourth finger, with or without a pick on it, would come into position on string five, blocking it, as the hand is shifted into the new position to pick the fourth and subsequent notes. Every other note would be blocked by re-placing the pick that just struck it. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2015 6:43 pm
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Thanks guys.
Dave, that was a great explanation of how it is actually a bunch of techniques used together under the umbrella term of pick blocking.
John, your explanation is how I've been attempting to play it. My fingers don't easily play the GABC if I replace each pick on its respective string. The index tends to slide over and hit the middle finger string and cause some racket.
When just playing, and not thinking of picking, I find my thumb sliding over and muting 7 and 6 with the thumb. 6 gets the blade part of the thumb pick. 7 gets the pick side or flesh of the thumb. What Doug said, only with lousy technique.
Those videos are revealing.
Paul clearly has his palm down across the strings in Newman approved hand position. He's pick blocking but it is so fast you can't see if his picks are resting.
Joe has his hand up and flat. The camera is not close enough to see the additional techniques mentioned. But I assume he is doing what Dave described.
Barbara is just charming. Not much to see there. I wanted to hear Hal Rugg!
A friend came over last night and we played the tune at 120. I can play the notes at that speed, but I can not stop the notes as I play them yet.
Back to the woodshed.
John |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2015 11:58 am
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| John Goux wrote: |
Thanks guys.
Those videos are revealing.
Paul clearly has his palm down across the strings in Newman approved hand position. He's pick blocking but it is so fast you can't see if his picks are resting.
Joe has his hand up and flat. The camera is not close enough to see the additional techniques mentioned. But I assume he is doing what Dave described.
Barbara is just charming. Not much to see there. I wanted to hear Hal Rugg!
A friend came over last night and we played the tune at 120. I can play the notes at that speed, but I can not stop the notes as I play them yet.
Back to the woodshed.
John |
John,
My apologies, I listed the incorrect URL for “Barbara Mandrell -- Steel Guitar Ragâ€; here is the correct link (which I also fixed in my earlier posting): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2M_J16z9sk. In this clip, there are more close-ups of Barbara’s right hand, and you can see more clearly the “resting/stopping†motion that you are seeking.
However, it is unlikely that the level of detail you will need to learn pick-blocking will be found on YouTube clips. I would highly recommend Joe Wright’s video I described earlier: “Palm/Pick Blocking Conceptsâ€-- http://pedalsteel.com/ashop/index.php?product=144
Current price of Joe’s DVD is $45, and it is worth every penny. Joe is an excellent instructor, and the video--with multiple simultaneous camera angles and extreme close-ups--is very well done. (I have the videotape version from years ago; I assume the DVD is taken from it.)
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Yes, Barbara Mandrell is very “charmingâ€; she is also an excellent steel guitarist who learned pick-blocking from Norm Hamlet, Merle Haggard’s long time steel guitarist (who learned it from Vance Terry, an early master of pick-blocking). Sitting down at someone else’s steel guitar (Hal Ruggs’ guitar in this instance) and using his picks is difficult enough in itself--and Barbara pulled it off without a hitch in that videoclip with impeccable technique and a very hot version of “Blue Bonnet Bluesâ€! Check out the clip of “Steel Guitar Rag†listed above!
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I would suggest not worrying about Jeff Newman’s “approved hand position†when it comes to pick-blocking; Jeff taught palm-blocking, and the hand position he recommends (which is very useful, but far from universal among steel guitar masters) is specifically for palm-blocking.
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Lastly, do not expect overnight success with pick-blocking. It took me a good six months of wood-shedding to learn how to pick-block well enough to play it on stage, and that was after years of palm-blocking.
-Dave |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 20 Dec 2015 3:06 pm
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The way I approach it that feels the most comfortable is to keep you picking in clusters of threes so you are not jumping or bouncing your hand up and down the strings, that how the pick block becomes efficient I suppose. The trick is to get all three of your fingers(or two fingers and a thumb to be biologically correct) trained to work independently and as a team.
Joe Wright has courses out on drills to get your fingers firing on all cylinders.
I bought the courses from Joe when I first started out and they are well worth it. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2015 11:52 am
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As a pickblocker, here's how I would play it.
Middle for string 4, Index for string 5. Then, as the A Pedal is released I use the extra time to reposition my Middle onto 6, and the Index and Thumb on 7 & 8 for the rest of the bar.
At the end of the first bar as Pedal B is raising string 6, I once again will use the extra time to reposition my Thumb to block string 6 after the first note of bar two sounds. At that time, my Middle and Index will be on 4 & 5 to finish out the lick.
This is my method, which typically lines up exactly with Paul's when I watch his fingers closely... although I don't wanna say that's 'definitely' how he does it.
For me, picks 'almost' always cut off the notes. Sometimes it is the same pick that struck the note, sometimes it is another pick if I have switched to a different string group. The sole exception for me is when the thumb picks one string, then picks the next one up. For example, if I pick string 9 with the Thumb, then string 8 with the Thumb... then string 9 gets cut off with part of my hand. This is not planned, it just happens since there are no picks within reach. Again, Paul 'appears' to do this too, but he maintains that he 'only' uses the picks, so I just don't know. But it definitely works for me. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2015 4:36 pm
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| Forgot to add one thing... Just as with the Thumb moving out away from you, when the Middle finger picks a note and then moves to pick a string closer to you, the pick-less fingers inherently cut off the previous note. This also is an automatic move and is not planned, it just happens. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2015 9:35 pm
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Jeff, thanks for that explanation. What you are describing is pretty much how I have been attempting to finger and mute these kind of fast licks. You have added the ring fingertip and hand as muting elements for descending and ascending lines. That seems like an effective strategy, and has an advantage, that of flesh being quieter than metal for muting.
How did you learn to do this?
John |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2015 6:07 am
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Like I said, it happened naturally.
In my first year of playing, I was attempting to use traditional palm-blocking. I switched to pick-blocking after I saw Paul's instructional video (then on VHS). It was right for me, and I've never looked back.
In Paul's explanation, he only mentions placing the picks back on the strings they just picked. But, when I watched him play other runs in the video very closely and matched his pick placement, the other fingers just did the work. |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2015 4:08 pm
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Tried pick blocking, but didn't get the effect I wanted. I block by curling my ring finger under & blocking with that.
The effect I always went for is the sound of Buddy Cage with the New Riders...good example being the solos in "Teardrops in my Eyes" & "Panama Red". Can't seem to get that with pick blocking.
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2015 10:09 am
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| Hey, I love that stuff! I've learned those and several other Buddy Cage solos. I can do it with pick-blocking... but, admittedly, I have to force parts of my hand down onto the strings to "fake" being able to palm-block. |
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