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Topic: Where to get an appraisal for insurance purposes. |
Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2015 11:43 am |
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A month ago, I got a "new to me" Sierra Pedal Steel S-10 ....
I'd like to get an appraisal that addresses it's value in today's market & another look at in today's replacement dollars.
Surely someone does this....
This is for my homeowners, I have to get a waiver.
Thanks |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2015 1:13 pm
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You don't need an appraisal. State a value and insure it for that.
Your easiest replacement is the cost of a new Sierra.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Dec 2015 2:11 pm
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Chris, Farmer's DOES want a written appraisal, they'll accept a valuation from a music store.
Since a new Sierra isn't possible, I'd say a "replace with new" would be to compare with MSA.
If your guitar store is like mine, they will just accept my word and write my suggested value. They're more accurate on my amplifiers.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2015 2:17 pm
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I am sorry, I thought Sierra still made guitars.
With my State Farm Homeowners, I simply asked for stated value and they allowed it. Tell them you will go somewhere else if they don't accept stated value.
My instruments are all under Heritage Insurance, but my fly rods are under State Farm Homeowners.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Dec 2015 2:21 pm
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Hell, the guitar store will probably write you up for stated value. Unless Billy Cooper is your local guitar store, you probably know more than they do.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2015 2:48 pm
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Stated value, you establish the value. You pay for it based upon that value. It is not like you are getting something you are not paying for. If you state too high of a value it does not matter, you pay for it anyway.
I think you have a defensive agent who is afraid of what he does not know and being responsible for making a decision. Try a different agent.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2015 3:47 pm
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I use Clarion for insuring my gear (for profit).
They insure for replacement value; they want documentation for anything over $5K.
Haven't had to use them, but I understand they're good.
I couldn't get a rider on my homeowners policy, so I had to look elsewhere. I think they charge 1% of value.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 11 Dec 2015 10:55 pm
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| I was just asked to state a value as well when i insured. I generally know what it would cost to replace my gear. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Dec 2015 6:57 pm
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If you state a reasonable value, I don't think they'll balk. But with expensive items, they'll sometimes check comparable prices, simply based on a description. Therefore, you can't insure it for anything you want (an unreasonable amount), and then expect them to pay for a loss just because you've paid a few big premiums.
For a small fee, any knowledegable dealer should give you a reasonable value estimate. (You may have to supply some pictures.) |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 13 Dec 2015 4:12 am
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I have a rider on my Foremost Mobile Home policy. It is stated my equipment (and my wife's) is for non-profit. They do require a definite valuation. My policy is for replacement costs, so they accept documented retail value (an ad for the item, website, etc).
I would say on your Sierra, get a couple or three of the steel guitar dealers to value it. Sierra, while not making pedal steels, is still in business. it would be work an email to they to see if they could provide documentation as to what their suggested retail cost was on your guitar.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Dec 2015 7:35 am
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| How about just a snapshot of the pricelist from the MSA website? |
I'd think an insurance company would want to replace it with a comparable guitar. And If I was in the position of that company, there's no way I'd replace a 30 year-old used instrument with a brand new one.  "Book value" for an S10 or S12 Sierra would probably be in the $1300-$1800 range.
And if you should go ahead with this, read your policy rider very carefully! |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 13 Dec 2015 7:40 am
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Maybe so. But I have replacement value insurance on my home and what it means is the cost to build me a NEW home of similar quality and size, not the cost to buy me another 30- year old home...
But maybe it's different for instruments...?
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Dec 2015 9:55 am
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Yes Jim, but car and other personal property is insured for its value.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 13 Dec 2015 12:05 pm
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Our music equipment IS insured for replacement value.
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Dec 2015 10:23 pm
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Dealing with insurance companies can be frustrating when you make a claim, so make sure what the agent says or tells you is actually written into the policy!
Some other facts are listed below (from a post over at the Mandolin Cafe)
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Use of Homeowner Policies to Insure Musical Instruments
We often get asked to explain why someone should insure their personal instruments/equipment with us, versus placing them on a schedule on a homeowner policy. Homeowner policies vary from company to company, and from policy form to policy form. Generally speaking, the most common homeowner policy is the "HO-3" policy form, which can have a special endorsement (the "HO-61" endorsement) attached to the policy at the client's request. This endorsement covers "Scheduled Personal Property", and is copy written by the Insurance Services Office, who then provides the insurers with the endorsement form. The most common and practical use of this endorsement is to cover valuables such as jewelry or fine arts. Even if an insurer uses their own forms and definitions for scheduled personal property, the intent shadows the HO-3 and HO-61 forms.
The basic problems with using this endorsement to insure musical instruments and equipment are as follows:
A.) "You agree not to perform with these instruments for pay unless specifically provided for under this policy." So reads the HO-61 endorsement. Seldom, if ever, will a homeowner carrier approve professional use of an instrument. Therefore, if you play for any remuneration at all, you have voided the terms and coverage of the policy contract.
The professional is best covered under a Heritage Musical Instrument Policy, as it is designed to cover those who earn money from the playing of their instruments.
B.) The value of the property (instruments/equipment) insured is not agreed upon, but will be ascertained ay the time of loss or damage. Even though an appraisal was requested at the placement of the coverage, the carrier may still deviate from that figure. The insurer may disagree with the insured as to the value and push the settlement into arbitration or litigation.
C.) There is nothing specific with regard to devaluation caused by breakage in the homeowner form. Claims representatives may agree or disagree on this point. Policies are quiet on this issue. |
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Charley Bond
From:
Inola, OK, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2015 5:40 pm comparable guitar...?
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| How about just a snapshot of the pricelist from the MSA website? |
I'd think an insurance company would want to replace it with a comparable guitar. And If I was in the position of that company, there's no way I'd replace a 30 year-old used instrument with a brand new one. "Book value" for an S10 or S12 Sierra would probably be in the $1300-$1800 range.
And if you should go ahead with this, read your policy rider very carefully! |
Mr Hinson, the phrase comparable guitar leaves a lot to be desired, plus if the insurance agent likes Emmons' Guitars instead of Sierras... I'm gonna get the wrong end of the stick.
Maybe as a group, we should do our own appraisals, so we as consumers get a fair deal in trade or theft transaction.
In actuality, we could as a group do each of us a favor by appraising our instruments, as a group.
My Sierra may not have cost $1800.00, but try finding something comparable for $1800.00 It's almost impossible to find a Sierra for sale.. |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2015 11:25 am
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My equipment is insured by Smith and Wesson!
_________________
A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 18 Dec 2015 11:49 am
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I should clarify my equipment is insured in a "Scheduled Personal Property" rider.
Also protected by Strum & Ruger... 
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Dec 2015 1:44 pm Re: comparable guitar...?
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| Charley Bond wrote: |
Mr Hinson, the phrase comparable guitar leaves a lot to be desired, plus if the insurance agent likes Emmons' Guitars instead of Sierras... I'm gonna get the wrong end of the stick. |
I would think that "comparable" would mean the same brand (if available) and similar equipment and market value. If you wreck your Toyota or Nissan, I doubt they'll replace it with a Lexus, no matter how emotionally attached to it you are.
Also, "Full Replacement Value" doesn't mean that if it's stolen, you're going to get a new "anything". You merely get something of the same monetary worth.
Here's the commonly accepted definition:
The term replacement cost or replacement value refers to the amount that an entity would have to pay to replace an asset at the present time, according to its current worth. |
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Dennis Mike
From:
Wilson, New York, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 5:44 am Where eBay comes in handy
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My insurance agent (State Farm) accepted three listings off of eBay to establish the value of a mid 70's Martin guitar (rather than a formal appraisal). I don't know whether this is standard practice in the industry or not -- the agent is a neighbor, so maybe he cut me some slack.
Dennis
_________________
Dennis Mike
Carter D10, dobro, acoustic and electric guitar, Peavy 112 |
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Ray Thomas
From:
Goldsboro North Carolina
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Posted 25 Dec 2015 3:11 pm insurance
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If you leave your guitar and other equipment at a place you play regular check with the building owner about insurance, some companies don't cover items that are not a permanent part of the building if stole or fire loss.
_________________
Ray Thomas
Livesteel Strings Dealer
Call 919-920-5482
Text rayssteel@gmail.com or email |
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Gary Mcquaig
From:
Blackshear Georgia, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2015 1:00 pm Same problem
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I know what I paid for the guitar and maybe someone could give me a good dollar amount on this guitar. Emmons Reissue
S10 with 4 & 5.
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Lefty
From:
Grayson, Ga.
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Posted 28 Dec 2015 6:07 pm
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Also, taking some good photos is a good idea.
I did many digital pictures of each instrument and put them into a power point presentation.
I loaded that onto a memory stick that I keep in another location outside the home base. Also I am home all day and Mr. Remington 870 Police magnum and Mr. Glock 22 help me keep watch.
regards,
Lefty |
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