Blues neck tuning?

Matt Dawson · Post by **Matt Dawson** » 12 Jan 2004 3:32 am

When the tunings for E9 and C6 were standardised there was obviously a fairly clear distinction between E9 for country, and C6 for swing. Although I love both, where I live these 2 styles of music simply dont exist outside of the purist 'dress-up-as-a cowboy-at-weekends' country circuit, which is not my cup of tea. I tend to use the E9 side on ballads and 'pop' to do the job of a string section, and the B6 (C6) side for the r n' b, soul, and rockabilly to do what a horn section might do. They are really big on 'Blues Brothers' etc. over here.

My question. Neither neck is specifically designed for blues-based music although both can 'play it like it is' when in the right hands - has anyone ever come up with a tuning specifically for blues based on the scale
E G G# A Bb B D E or similar? A sort of a BB King lick friendly tuning? I mean using pedals, not a 6 string open guitar tuning like Duane Allman. Seeing what Amos Garret does with double stopped string bends does gives one an idea of what might be possible with pedals.

I had the idea of buying an old single neck to experiment on.
Cheers for any thoughts.....
Matt

Steven Black · Post by **Steven Black** » 12 Jan 2004 3:56 am

I have a tunning for blues that Freddie Roulette used on his steel I can send you, but I am at work now will have to wait till I get home and send it from my other computer. check with Joe Wright as well he might have some Ideas. steveb carter D10 8+5,
MSA s12 7&5.

Matt Dawson · Post by **Matt Dawson** » 12 Jan 2004 4:03 am

Yes please!
No hurry...ive been thinking about this for 15 years!
Matt[This message was edited by Matt Dawson on 12 January 2004 at 04:06 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 Jan 2004 6:04 am

Matt, look over on the site for Carter steel guitars. There are several "Sacred Steel" tunings used by people like Robert Randolph and Chuck Campbell for playing blues and gospel. There are also one or more of these on the Forum's own list of tunings. For me, a 12-string E9/B6 universal tuning works much better for blues, pop and rock than 10-string E9 or C6. In E9 mode I get the flatted 3rd, 5th and 7th from pedals or levers (this can also be done with 10-string E9, but you are missing the low root). In B6 mode, the B pedal turns it into a B7 tuning, very similar to what the Sacred Steelers use. For me, the universal has it all. When I get a chance, I'll post my copedent.

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 12 Jan 2004 6:59 am

You may be interested in this thread
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004545.html

Steven Black · Post by **Steven Black** » 12 Jan 2004 7:07 am

Hey Matt I think scott gave you the tunning I was going to give you, but that is it, I will still check though. steveb.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 Jan 2004 1:58 pm

C6th works very well for blues, especially if you add a middle D string. But if you're playing in a guitar-based blues band, it's hard to beat the Sacred Steel E7th tuning.

My 12 string E9th is also very good for blues. Click the link in my signature.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 12 Jan 2004 4:43 pm

Matt, when I was playing 6-string lap steel I used a G6 tuning. In other words, I tuned the lap steel like a guitar, but the 5th and 6th strings were tuned to B and G respectively. This way, I could easily transfer my guitar blues licks to lap steel and I still had a big chord on the bottom strings. I don't know if you're a coverted guitar player or not, but this helped me.

Rick

Matt Dawson · Post by **Matt Dawson** » 14 Jan 2004 1:18 am

Many thanks for the replies. The sacred steel E7 tuning looks very interesting for what Im looking for.
Matt

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 14 Jan 2004 4:30 am

Hi Matt I am in the same boat, I have been changing E9 a bit lately to make it blues better s9 D to C# and s2 D# too D.
And a G# to G lever change.

And you description of how you're playing the style gibes well with me also.

Now this called for a change in a few other pulls too, and as b0b pointed out a few additions to regain the D funcationality.

And I added a dom7 and Minor lever as a pair on C6 for those really needed relative minors for blues and jazz.

I'm not saying jump into this, just that this is what I am looking at for the same reasons you are asking.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 14 January 2004 at 04:52 AM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 14 Jan 2004 4:59 am

I agree with David. During most of 2002, I played in a blues rock band. I played my standard E9/B6 U 12, with no special changes or extra pedals. However, I drop my low B string to A on the A pedal, so I get a low bass power chord with the pedals down.

Rich Young · Post by **Rich Young** » 14 Jan 2004 1:16 pm

I only have a s-10 e9 with pedals, but do play c6 non-pedal. I would use C6 for blues cause it's pretty much open A up 3 frets. Never played BB type licks, though. I'm mainly a guitar player and with 17 BB King albums I've got a few of those under my belt on guitar.

I have played a lot of slide on guitar. If I'm doing a reg gig, I'll play in standard tuning and angle the slide - like you do on lap steel, you can also do this for some dobro sounding licks. But I also have a guitar set up with open A, for more straight ahead blues slide.

Those licks translate really well to C6 - especially if you have the G on the top string.

Maybe a lapsteel with open A on it would work, too. Give you more bluesy sound, I'd think.

Oh, and Elmore James used straight open E, so the E9 would be close. So of the sacred stuff looks interesting, have not played with it though.[This message was edited by Rich Young on 14 January 2004 at 01:18 PM.]

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 14 Jan 2004 8:35 pm

There have been many discussions on this subject on the forum before, but basically there is nothing wrong with tuning to a pentatonic minor scale. However,there is also great merit to learning your pentatonic scales,7ths,etc. on a conventional tuning like C6. Also,Bobby Lee's advice is sound advice. Try (hi to lo) E,D,C,A,G,E,D,C,A,F for a 10-string tuning,and E through C for eight strings. Your pentatonic minor scale is just 3 frets up from you root chord,and your 7th is just two frets down from your root position...without any pedals.
~~W.C.~~

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 15 Jan 2004 10:11 am

My C6add9 tuning has so many blues scales it's not funny. It's not real good for slamming chords, though. I think that, if I were playing in a blues band today, I'd use a 10 string Sacred Steel tuning. It has everything you need for that kind of music.

For an occassional blues tune in a country or rock band, any tuning will work IMHO. The key is in understanding the music, not in what tuning you're using to play it.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 17 Jan 2004 12:51 am

Another vote for the Sacred Steel type tuning. You can't discount divine intervention....

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www.tyack.com

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 17 Jan 2004 6:15 am

.. I would have to say that in MHO,blues is a feel.. not a tuning. Someone who knows good blues tone and the "soul" behind the music will play great blues stuff on a standard E9 OR C6 copedent. Yes you will have certain limitations,but as far as soloing and playing good backup,no problem. Its all in the heart, not in the pedals when it comes to blues. I think maybe a lot of VERY GOOD steel players have played mostly E9 country steel for many years, and blues and blues based music was not a high priority,so later on when its time to branch out,the players"heart and soul" are in a different place than a guy who's played the blues for years. Lets put it this way... BB King is considered "The King of the Blues".. deservededly so!. However how would BB handle a country tele twang guitar assignment??? He has the heart of a blues man not a country tele picker/bender. The point I am trying to make is this... BB lived the blues musically.. it was in his soul and came out in his music. His limited knowledge of guitar NEVER hampered him. He once said on TV he could barely even play chords. A good steel guitarist CAN play blues on the tuning of his choice JUST FINE if it in his soul. The pedals/tuning and the limitations thereof will not stop good blues playing... a lack of "soul" will!! bob

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 17 Jan 2004 6:52 am

...a quote by B.B. King...

"I never could play like anyone else so I guess that's why I play like me."

www.genejones.com

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 17 Jan 2004 9:33 am

The key is in understanding the music, not in what tuning you're using to play it.
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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts

I used to play blues on lap steel A6 tuning.
Bobby is right , you can play blues on any tuning, if you know music.
However, it is true that certain tunings make it easier to accomplish this...al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 17 Jan 2004 10:28 am

I'd love to try a sacred-steel tuning. My favorite kind of blues playing features major thirds and 6th tones--like take-off guitar or what many R&B pianists play--as well as minor thirds, flatted sevenths and flatted fifths. I find the chord style blues more easily on E9 than C6. If you got a gig playing with Bill Dogget or Booker T and had to play meaty parts, not just fills, what tuning would you use?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 17 Jan 2004 10:50 pm

If I was playing with Bill Doggett, it would get confusing. But I'd be playing a 12-string universal, like I do with an electric blues band once a month here in Philly. I have knees that give me flatted 7ths and 5ths in E9 open or with the pedals down, and can also get them in B6 mode. There are lots of easy power chords in this tuning to thump on when you are not playing fills.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 18 Jan 2004 5:34 am

Matt,

The E9th tuning is a tuning where the pentatonic, blues scale, and modal playing are easily accessible. Those are the scales typically heard by the greatest of blues players. It's musicality that changes country and swing players into blues players and rockers, not tunings.

If someone desires to play rhythm on the E9th tuning they can lower the B's to A along with lowering the low F# to E and raising the D to E on a lever to be used along with the B pedal down. Now from strings three to ten there are fifths only.

Strumming rhythm with only the root and fifth will work for ANY chord typically found in the blues or sacred steel compositions plus it works for most rock and pop compositions. When you release that knee pedal you still have the entire musical history of the E9th in front of you to continue exploring. Also the E9th can be extended for richer bottom strings.

Paul

Remember that a blues player typically plays mostly three chord compositions. The E9th and C6th have evolved way beyond that scope. If a player only wanted to play the blues any tuning will work with the right pedal setup.

Paul

Karlis Abolins · Post by **Karlis Abolins** » 18 Oct 2004 8:41 am

The E9th tuning constantly surprises me. With just 2 pedals you can get a two octave G blues scale that starts on the 10th string at the 6th fret with the pedal "A" down. You only have to move off of the 6th fret at the very end.

Here are two alternates with either a raise on the 7th and 2nd strings or a lower on the 3rd and 6th strings.
<pre>
P1= 5++ & 10++ (two half steps)
P2= 1+ & 7+ (one half step)
P3= 3- & 6- (one half step)
1 |-----------------------6-6P2----
2 |--------------------------------
3 |-----------------------------6-9
4 |---------------------6----------
5 |---------------6-6P1------------
6 |-------------6------------------
7 |-------6-6P2--------------------
8 |-----6--------------------------
9 |--------------------------------
10|-6P1----------------------------

1 |-----------------------6--------
2 |--------------------------------
3 |-------------------------6P3-6-9
4 |---------------------6----------
5 |---------------6-6P1------------
6 |---------6P3-6------------------
7 |-------6------------------------
8 |-----6--------------------------
9 |--------------------------------
10|-6P1----------------------------
</pre>

Karlis[This message was edited by Karlis Abolins on 18 October 2004 at 09:42 AM.]