ideas for LKV?

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 10 Oct 2004 10:29 am

My LKV lowers B(5th) to Bb. I hardly ever use this lever. any suggestions on what change I could put on this lever? I don't have the PF pedal/lever on my guitar, that could be one choice, but I was thinkin of maybe just putting a single string change, something like maybe the Mooney lick, or somethin similar. any suggestions?
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 10 Oct 2004 11:28 am

I like to pull the 5th string B up to D with the up lever.

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 10 Oct 2004 1:35 pm

keep what you got and learn how to use it.

JW

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 10 Oct 2004 3:01 pm

I prefer lowering the 6th string to G# with the LKV, and I use it a lot......but it's just a preference and certainly has no inherent superiority over any other preference.

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 10 October 2004 at 04:03 PM.]

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 10 Oct 2004 3:33 pm

Gene, Did you mean you lower the sixth string to an F#? Or the fifth string to a G#? I assume that your sixth string is a G#

My LKV lowers the fifth string to an A. I am really starting to like it.

TC

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 10 Oct 2004 6:26 pm

Gene, I lower my 6th a wole tone with LKR, which also raises 1st string a whole and 2nd string a half.

Earnest, what can you get with the B to D on LKV as far as chords or notes?

TC, can you explain what chords or notes you get with the B to A?
both, Earnest and TC's change sounds interesting.

Ok winnie, I'm all ears. besides a 2 chord and minor chord, what can I do with the B to Bb? I can get a 2 chord by sliding back one fret with the B pedal engaged strings 3 and 5. and I can get almost the same sound with strings 4 and 5 and sliding back one fret with my E to F lever engaged. both of these are easier than having to come off the pedals and engage LKV to get the same thing.

Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 10 October 2004 at 07:30 PM.]

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 10 Oct 2004 9:58 pm

I would recommend raising the fourth string to F#. That just about eliminates the need for the C pedal (which then will be free for other duties), and works very well in conjunction with the A & B pedals. To get the F# in that position, which is useful both for chords and fast licks, you just kick your knee upwards, instead of jumping over to the C pedal - much quicker.

I've had this change since 1980, and now I can't play without it. Give it a try, Terry, you can always change back!

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Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, Goodrich 120, Peavey Nashville 1000

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Oct 2004 1:15 am

ok..I've got a serious question..kind of..

why is it so important to be able to spell the exact name for each and every chord we may get with a single lever change . Why isn't it equally or more important to understand what phrases can be tied together with lever and pedal combinations..or maybe just the lever and and a bar slant..we should know the chord family and relationship but farther than that..I don't really care...

I'm not trying to slight anyones comments but I have to be real here..when I play I have never looked down at the Steel and said ok ..now I'm gonna play a Bb minor 9th and then move to an EB major..and then I'm gonna really impress the band and play an F 13th for the 5th ...I don't think so..

I know what key we are in ( sometimes) and go from there..and so does everyone else I suspect.

SO why not just seek the phrases that are not in the normal rule of things..break away from Ped AB with the E levers..The Bb Lever offers a full array of add-ons , some of which I can execute..some I can't but the music is there if you're up for stretching out of the normal. Not everything on this silly contraption is for dominant use , some things are there to "Sweaten" " the Tea so to speak.

I'm with Winnie on this one..

Joe Pass says in his excellent Guitar chord video..

"I have no clue what the name of this in family chord is but I know it sure sounds good" !

My feeling is that if you're thinking about what chords you may want to play by the time you've thought about it the opportunity to execute has already passed..

I think it's monumentally important to understand position playing but also know what the positions are offering as a secondary item.

but thats just me..what do I know..

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 11 October 2004 at 02:26 AM.]

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 11 Oct 2004 1:22 am

Terry says:
"Ok winnie, I'm all ears. besides a 2 chord and minor chord, what can I do with the B to Bb?"
[snip the rest]

I'm with Tony. It doesn't matter what the chord is. There are lots of chords in lots of places on the steel. The question is "what sound do you want it to have?" A 2 chord there is NOT a 2 chord elsewhere.
All I can tell you is that I can't live without that change. I guess a lot of it has to do with MY playing, and how I hear. I don't see/hear it in CHORDS. I hear in it melodies, and I hear it as a good way of getting from here to there.
If YOU don't hear it... change it to something else.

JW

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 11 Oct 2004 2:30 am

Thanks T.C., my post was in error. I really don't lower my G# to G#

, I lower it to G.

I've never liked the "C" pedal, and have never used it....I've always intended to do something else with it but never got around to it yet!

I agree with Tony about "thinking chords". If someone asked me for chords while playing, I would have to call "time out" to focus on it.

....Same thing with pedals and levers. While playing, I never think about "which one does what"!

....however, it's always been helpful to know the key.

www.genejones.com

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 11 Oct 2004 3:16 am

I agree with Winnie on this one! I also couldn't live without that change. I use it more for getting from point A to point B and don't think of it so much in chords but if that's your thing another use is with the F lever. When you have your A pedal and the F lever engaged you have a C# in the open position. Let off your A pedal and it becomes the dominant 7th, use the Jeff lever (B to Bb/A#) and it becomes a 6th. It's just useful all over the neck in any of the combinations. Have a good 'un..JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 11 Oct 2004 5:45 am

why is it so important to be able to spell the exact name for each and every chord we may get with a single lever change . Why isn't it equally or more important to understand what phrases can be tied together with lever and pedal combinations..

well, ok, we'll call it phrases. I'll be honest with ya'll, I don't know the specific name of ever chord I hit, although I do think it's important to know most of the chords your hiting. I like to be able to tell the Bass player, or guitar player, that's a D7th or an Fm when they ask what chord did you just go to?

The question is "what sound do you want it to have?"

that's why I asked them what they got as far as chords or "sounds" or "phrases" with their B to D or B to A

I agree with Tony about "thinking chords". If someone asked me for chords while playing, I would have to call "time out" to focus on it.

me to Gene, but I would like to be able to tell them the chord, instead of, I don't have the slightest idea, figure it out for yourself.

anyway, thanks guys.
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 11 October 2004 at 06:54 AM.][This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 11 October 2004 at 07:00 AM.][This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 11 October 2004 at 07:02 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Oct 2004 8:37 am

Terry, I think in the normal real world ( if there is such a thing)if you have to tell the Bass player what chord you are playing ,he or she is probably the wrong Bass player for the Bandstand gig.

I fully agree that it is essential to know the root positions but the knowing the names of the passing phrases I'm afraid would take me the rest of my life.And keep in mind I have many dedicated hours set aside for couch and remote.

Considering most of us are playing in common progressions it is probably safe to say that most bandstand players can hear the 2 chord, the 3 chord , certainly the 4 and 5 and probably the 6 chord without being told. Sure there are always a few freaky progressions that need to be written out..but thats probably the exception rather than the rule.

I wouldn't focus too much on knowing what the correct names of chords are, which is different than phrases. I would just play and be done with it..

"I'm in G on my way to C "..." I'll meet you there in 4 beats"...

remember, the definition of a chord is more than 2 notes..lets see, 10 strings, numerous frets..a whole bunch of knee levers and pedals..that adds up to more chords than I think common folks can comprehend.

t

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 11 Oct 2004 9:53 am

Some players like the 1 1/2 step effect. For example, against a 7th string note you can take the pedaled 5th string (full step raise) and engage the lowering lever as you release the pedal. The 5th of the chord slides smoothly down to the 3rd of the chord (root on the 7th string).

I'm not a big fan of these radical motions, but I hear them on modern Nashville records sometimes.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 11 Oct 2004 10:01 am

Terry, I think in the normal real world ( if there is such a thing)if you have to tell the Bass player what chord you are playing ,he or she is probably the wrong Bass player for the Bandstand gig.

Tony, that may be true in the proffesional rank, but I'm far from a professional, so is our church, bass player, guitar, and piano player.
I'm not sayin our bass player ain't good, he's one of the best non professionals I've ever heard. but we play strictly by ear, and there are times we have to know what chord, or note(in his case) the song is goin to.
we can follow a song real well, as long as it stays in a fairly simple pattern. the I-II,IV,V chords and realative minor changes.
but when it goes off into never never land, I got to know what chord I'm supposed to hit.

That's one I hadn't found with the B to Bb Bobbe. also I found a real purty seventh on strings 2,3 and 5 with the B to Bb lever engaged and the 2nd string D# to D engaged.
I might just keep-er.

Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

[This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 11 October 2004 at 11:43 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Oct 2004 12:08 pm

Hey Terry, I fully understand what you are saying. When I played Bass in our Church band( 6 years of 4 services/week plus rehearsals) we all had charts. The Contemporary Christian tunes can be difficult to play by ear to say the least, even for the PRO's. They are not similar in structure to the typical Chuck Berry R+R and 3 chord Country song..thats for sure.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that folks are not able players..but it does hold true that on the bandstands the language is unspoken, just executed.

The definition of Professional is " one who receives money"..so I guess it would be safe to assume that some of us are out there under false pretenses !

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 11 October 2004 at 01:09 PM.]

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 11 Oct 2004 3:31 pm

The Contemporary Christian tunes can be difficult to play by ear to say the least, even for the PRO's.

I agree totally! I'm thankful I don't have to try and play contemporary at our church, most all the singers sing southern Gospel style. the Pastors daughter-in-law is about the only one that sings contemporary, and she sings by tape. thank God!

Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 12 Oct 2004 1:02 pm

Terry, you'll find another voicing for your I cord or tonic by sliding back 2 frets (1 tone) from "O" position w: LKV that lowers strings 5 & 10 and the knee lever (in my case RKR) that lowers string 9 a half step
you can play all strings but the 2nd one

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 12 Oct 2004 5:33 pm

Thanks Crowbear, I have the 9th string 1/2 tone lower, but I don't have the 10th string lower. My LKV only lowers my 5th string 1/2 tone.
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Dan Farrell · Post by **Dan Farrell** » 12 Oct 2004 5:46 pm

I'm with Gene Jones on this one. Besides playing a Carter, I have LKV set to lower G# to G. That is a change I learned to use real fast!

Michael Dene · Post by **Michael Dene** » 12 Oct 2004 8:01 pm

Bobby, neat move. thanks. I missed that one.

Michael

Pat Kelly · Post by **Pat Kelly** » 16 Oct 2004 11:57 am

terry, I think if you are coming off the pedals to use the LKV that may be your problem. The lever should work with pedals engaged or not engaged. Look at your seat height. I'm sure you will find this is a useful change.