Pedal Rod Lotto-An Update

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 12 Oct 2004 1:29 pm

Years ago, on this forum, I told you guys about a little game I play when I setup. I take my pedal rods out of the pouch randomly. I play an Emmons, so the rods are lightly stamped with their respective number (1-8) on the attachment head. I have a hard time reading them in bright light with my glasses on, much less in a dark room. So, cheating is difficult.
To date, I have never, ever, pulled them out and installed them, in order (1-8), or reverse order (8-1). I thought I would bring this back up after years have gone by. We've added hundreds of forum members since I brought it up last time.
Does anyone else play this silly game? I don't want to hear from you 3 pedal guys. That's the Pick 3 game. Only the Pick 8 Powerballers. Any math majors out there know the odds?
Sorry. It's slow day.
Oh...when I do achieve this ridiculous feat, I'm walking away. I'm quiting. That's my sign.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 12 Oct 2004 1:50 pm

I remember your original thread every time I set up, and have been playing the game myself about 20 years with 7 or 8 pedals!
Not a winner yet, but a few close ones!

mickd · Post by **mickd** » 12 Oct 2004 1:57 pm

Well now, I make it one chance in 40320 that you'll get it right without looking. Assuming you play out twice a week, then you should expect to strike lucky once every 387 years or so (by which time, you'll probably need to change strings)

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 12 Oct 2004 2:07 pm

Chris, it's funny you bring this up because this is an idiosyncracy of mine. In the thousands of times I've set up my guitar, I have only pulled the rods out in order (1-8 ascending) one time. Blew my mind. Also occurring only once, was me calling the numbers off randomly and picking all eight rods correctly. That is the equivalent of winning the lottery, IMHO.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Hans Holzherr · Post by **Hans Holzherr** » 12 Oct 2004 2:19 pm

Funny that you bring this up now. It happened to me just a week ago: 7 to 1 descending. First time in 30 years!!

Hans

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 12 Oct 2004 2:20 pm

OK Prob & Stat folks, isn't this one of eight factorial? (i.e. one in 40320). I'm probably wrong but it's just off the top of my head and my textbook (from 30 yrs ago) is at home in the shelf.

I believe the correct question formulation is "how many ways can you pull eight items, eight at a time?". I worked it out for 2,3, and 4 rods and it follows the factorial pattern (i.e. eight factorial is 1 x 2 x 3 x 4 x 5 x 6 x 7 x 8 = 40320)

2 rods = 2 ways = 1 x 2
3 rods = 8 ways = 1 x 2 x 3
4 rods = 24 ways = 1 x 2 x 3 x 4
5 rods = 120 ways = 1 x 2 x 3 x 4 x 5
6 rods = 720 ways = 1 x 2 x 3 x 4 x 5 x 6
7 rods = 5040 ways = 1 x 2 x 3 x 4 x 5 x 6 x 7
8 rods = 40320 ways (you get the pattern by now...

)

ps: I cheated and put labels on my 3 rods with a Brady labelmaker with big type.

(Credit goes to my prof. Dr. Vinay Pandit /SBU from 6 yrs ago too.)[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 12 October 2004 at 03:40 PM.]

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 12 Oct 2004 2:36 pm

Well I'll be darned! I thought I was the only one that did this. Once and only once the pedal rods came out in order until I got to the 8th pedal but just grabbing anything I found went 1-7 in order. It's a nine pedal p/p. I put my back two legs in the first two slots from left to right, then the pedals rods in the middle, and finally the front legs left to right. I just reach in the bag starting at the right for the set-up.
I have a Carter that I have to number the rods with a black marker but it comes off. What do you guys use to number your pedal rods?

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 12 Oct 2004 2:59 pm

Hey Chris,
I remember your original thread, and I do it every time I setup...I've modified the context a bit so that if the first 5 rods I pull out (any order) make a 'straight' (i.e. 1-5, 2-6, 3-7, or 4-8) I consider it a 'win'. Even that doesn't happen to often.

I think I pulled 1-5 out in order once, that's about as close as I ever got.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Oct 2004 4:18 pm

Ray, you're absolutely right, it is an 8-integer factorial. However, I'd say a "win" would also result if you pulled them out in exact reverse order (8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1), so your odds would then be 2 in 40,320, or 1 in 20,160. Yeah, I used to do thisgoofy mind game, and the best I ever got was the first 5 in order! Of course, on my first pedal guitar (the 1000), it didn't make any difference which rod went where. Same with my new "Mill" (they're all the same length), so I guess you could say I've dealt myself out of that silly game, huh?

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 12 Oct 2004 6:54 pm

As I mentioned in the original thread, I pulled all 10 rods in my Dekley in reverse order only once in 30+ years.

My Fessy and Emmons Push Pull have tape at different intervals, so I don't play anymore. Plus they only have 9 pedals, which would be too easy.

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Jim Smith jimsmith94@comcast.net
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 9&9=-
-=Emmons D-12 push pull 9&9=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-1080

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 12 Oct 2004 7:53 pm

Wow Jim, pedals 9 AND 10. That's truly the bonus ball! It's like when the Texas lotto went from 50 balls to 54 (or something like that).

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 28 Sep 2009 6:29 pm

I've used the same ritual for years:

When I pack my steel, I take off pedal rods 1-4 first. Then, when I take off rods 5-8, I flip them over, so the pedal connectors are on the opposite side to 1-4. That way, when the rods are unpacked I only have to deal w/ 4 rods at one time; either 1-4 or 5-8.........(reduces the factorial odds of picking the correct rod from 40,320 to 24)

Even more obsessively, I always put the pedal rack in the case first, then store the front legs on the outside of the pedal rack and the rear legs toward the inside divider. The legs are placed so the rubber tips of each one points to it's proper side (right vs. left). That makes it easy to pull the legs out in pairs and screw two in simultaneously.

It takes some of the guess work out the process for me.......I Have pulled rods # 1-4 + 5-8 in order three or four times.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 28 Sep 2009 6:55 pm

Well when I pull my 9 rods out of the bag they've always got the same bloody numbers on them --- no wonder I can't win lotto !!

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 29 Sep 2009 3:17 am

The method I used with some guitars was purchasing a model paint kit from a hobby shop that contains at least eight colors and painting the base of each pedal clip a different color (try to avoid using both yellow and white, they are difficult to distinguish between in poor light). Once the rod color/numbers are memorized, setup is a piece of cake. On a Mullen guitar, the numbers are quite large and well stamped, so I just paint the number stamps with bright orange paint then wipe the excess off the outside of the clip. This method leaves the numbers well defined and simple to read.

Kenny Radas · Post by **Kenny Radas** » 29 Sep 2009 5:06 am

I have never even done it with a single neck!!! I keep trying. I too thought I was the only one that thought about such things. Small world.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 29 Sep 2009 7:27 am

Wow, this thread is so old I almost forgot that I replied to it almost five years ago!

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 29 Sep 2009 10:46 am

I hit the 'Lotto' with my LDG several times, in ascending and descending order, but as Chris stated in the rules way back, 'That's the Pick 3 game.'

I still haven't ever done it with 8 rods...

Chris Allen Burke · Post by **Chris Allen Burke** » 29 Sep 2009 10:21 pm

This is amazing because I have played this game in what I thought was total solitude, for 20 years.
I used to keep a mental note of the sequence and if the night was a good event, I would play the numbers the next day in the lottery.
I have actually hit it once, (low amount, don't get excited), doing this.

My wife to this day, always plays my set-up numbers. Maybe it will happen again.

Keeponapicin'
Chris

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 30 Sep 2009 6:34 am

Wow this thread is five years old, and I've played probably 500 gigs or so since. Just to update everyone, my streak continues.
Still have never done it. I think I need to assemble my steel twice every time.
It's like hitting a hole in one or bowling a perfect game.

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 1 Oct 2009 12:26 pm

A good reason (as if one needed a good reason) to buy a new MSA with those neat little gadgets to adjust pedal height without having different length pedal rods. (All the rods same length so doesn't matter which goes to which pedal). At least, I THINK that's what they do. Wish I had enough money to find out for sure.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 5 Jan 2011 8:17 pm

1-6 in order last weekend, then pulled out rod 8... argh!!! I think that's as close as I've ever been. That means I got down to a 50-50 chance with 2 rods left, and missed..

Emmett Roch · Post by **Emmett Roch** » 5 Jan 2011 8:36 pm

I did it once with an MSA I had years ago. Until now, I never told anyone because I didn't think anyone would believe or understand it (or care).

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 6 Jan 2011 6:21 am

Hey Bill that's pretty close.
I have some of the band members on board with this, and they like to pull the rods out of the bag one at a time and call the numbers.
I even have had some hot chicks do the honors. They love it.

Dave Little · Post by **Dave Little** » 6 Jan 2011 7:25 am

I got them all in order 1 time (on my Emmons D10). I was so astonished, I went around to all the guys with this exciting news. They didn't seem all that impressed.
Dave Little

Bill Nevins · Post by **Bill Nevins** » 6 Jan 2011 7:59 am

years ago a player showed me a little trick and I don't remember who it was.I lay my rods on some newspaper in the order as they would be on the steel,with about 3 inches in between side by side.Take a can of dark spray paint and spray a line diagonally across the rods.Very narrow.After they dry I spray the backside one at a time.Once you remember which end to start at you can put them on in any light.You cant see the line on stage and a little lacquer thinner will take it right off if you ever need to.My rod all the way to the right has a slightly different connector so I start at that one.I could do it in the dark if I had to.

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