Playing out of a slant-bar position

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 6 Oct 2004 5:24 am

For the past several months I've been experimenting with a technique of holding the bar slanted, as if for a forward slant, and fretting different notes by changing the angle of the bar. Like, in C6th, fret a G note on the 15th fret of the 6th string, a B note on the 16th fret of the 5th string, and a D on the 17th fret of the 4th string. Then change the pitch of the notes by moving the angle of the bar, and going across the strings, not just up and down – of course, you combine it with slides too. Control is difficult, but so what? That's what practice is for. I thought this technique might be species-specific to the fat acrylic bars I usually use, but it seems to work OK with a metal bar now that I'm used to it. It doesn't seem possible that I invented this – has somebody else been playing this way?[This message was edited by David Mason on 06 October 2004 at 08:28 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 6 Oct 2004 6:13 am

I quit using slant bar moves when I went to the pedal steel. I thought that was what all those things hanging under the guitar were for.

Erv

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 6 Oct 2004 6:59 am

Before pedals we had to do it that way. In order to get 3 slant strings to be in tune, Your string spacing and scale length has to accomodate this. Jerry Byrd was the MASTER and his guitar always sounded in tune. Quite a few pickers are getting back into non-pedal pickin'. Scotty has been into lap steel for a long time. I am sure that we will hear from some non pedal pickers. How about it Big John ???(Bechtel)

Joe Naylor · Post by **Joe Naylor** » 6 Oct 2004 7:22 am

I started playing (a lap steel) when I was 6 years old (and that was a looooooooooooooong time ago) my teacher made me use slants and my little hands could bearly do it. After playing when I was a kid and loving it I decided to be come a super star like the Beatles or Buddy Holly and the Crickets (a bug group)- afte4r 40 years of not playing I came back and am happy to play pedal steel and not have to use slants. If you want to really get in to it though Scotty sells a bar called a twister (round on both ends) - I bought one to try and it makes slants easier but any bar will work.

If it don't have a steel it ain't a band

Come see us at the SW Steel Show in Mesa in January.

Joe

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Oct 2004 10:00 am

Dicky Overby was doing this on his PP at ISGC,
and doing these long slow slides in and around the keys,
and finally resolving, just so sweetly you wanted to cry.

And he had plenty of pedals there too.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 October 2004 at 11:01 AM.]

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 6 Oct 2004 10:23 am

David, I highly suggest you visit Buddy Charleton while he is still actively teaching. He told me a couple of years ago about Jeff Newman suggesting that bar slants should be included in Buddy's curriculum. An obsolete form of playing but yet an art that shouldn't be lost to pedals. Buddy can play for you some passages with slants and without. Let your ear be the judge.[This message was edited by Gary Lee Gimble on 06 October 2004 at 11:25 AM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 6 Oct 2004 10:55 am

Two pedal players I know of who use slants by choice, for the sound, are Buddy Emmons and Lloyd Green. That's decent company!

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David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 6 Oct 2004 12:01 pm

I'm not talking about moving the bar in and out of slants to get particular chords or intervals; I'm talking about keeping it slanted, so as to be able to use the length of the bar to facilitate faster pitch changes on a given string. Try holding the bar in the example I gave in the first post, and playing a full scale by angling the bar without moving your hand either closer to, or away from, the pickup and you'll see what I mean.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Oct 2004 2:57 pm

David, if you can do it, and maintain good intonation...DO IT, by all means! Most of us don't use slants more often because it's hard to maintain good intonation with a 10 or 12 string guitar, and because (as was already mentioned) we have those pedals right there to assist us.

Don't get me wrong, slant techniques are quite valuable, but with modern string spacings and bar sizes, using pedals is just flat-out easier and more accurate.

Neither Buddy nor Lloyd use slants as often as Jerry Byrd, and I have to believe that's because they just don't have to. As to it making your own playing faster or easier...well, I guess you could be right.

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 6 Oct 2004 3:45 pm

Having the bar in a slanted position makes me think about the fretboard a little differently, which is a plus. I doubt if it's really any faster, though--especially if you were playing a passage that moves up or down the neck a whole lot.

-Travis

randy · Post by **randy** » 7 Oct 2004 6:58 am

My cousin has been playing with bands for almost 50 years and he still uses slants on some of the older stuff, (Ray Price, Buck Owens, etc.), and I love the sound.

I wish I had learned more of that stuff. Our band plays mostly newer stuff but ever so often we do a medly of songs and my rides seem kind of cliche to me. I'm sure slanting would capture the sound better than the way I do it.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 7 Oct 2004 3:54 pm

I do that on non-pedal, but on pedal steel I mostly use slants to get moving tones that aren't handy with a pedal or knee in the current position. Or sometimes on slow songs I use a slant instead of the F or Eb lever, just because it sounds prettier.

I know what you mean, though, and no, you aren't the first one to do it. It's good exercise even on pedal steel. Anything you can do to increase your control of the bar will have great long-term benefits, whether you actually use the "licks" in songs or not. You're teaching your left hand all of the different slant angles. That is good.

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Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 7 Oct 2004 9:00 pm

I tried it some more, this afternoon, and found that after a while I could get close to the accuracy I wanted--but I'm still not sure of how playing like this actually benefits (aside from causing one to think a little differently, which is always a good thing).

Perhaps a small tab showing something you feel is better played using a stationary hand and slants rather than by moving the whole hand?

-Travis

Charles Turpin · Post by **Charles Turpin** » 10 Oct 2004 2:11 pm

I use slants sometimes as Bobby Lee does to get pedal changes i dont have. or to keep a string in motion. There is a real art to moving that bar in a slant though. There is also tricks to where and how you slant the bar. Tip of the bar can be used to hole two notes on a single fret while you turn the bar to get a slanted third note away from the straight bar fret. Scotty told me how to do this one time after i looked into his big book. It has one song in there none pedal "Reminising" by Jerry Byrd. That was played non pedal. But me i have a problem with slanting the bar in that i can't never get a forward slant right. What is the trick to doing that without twisting up your wrist.
I use pedals in different ways though to. Try playing a scale with your bar on the E9th and using your pedals for passing tones. This fun. Along with the bar slants.