| Author |
Topic: Does SIZE matter? Steel Bars that is... |
Clark Frady
From:
West Columbia, S. C.
|
Posted 30 Aug 2004 8:38 am |
|
I am thinking of getting a good steel bar for the PSG, however, not sure which size it the most practical to use, the 1" or the 7/8" Steel bar. Is there any theory on which size is the most versatile? Thanks...
------------------
Clark Frady
|
|
|
|
Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
|
Posted 30 Aug 2004 8:57 am
|
|
| I use 1" for 12 string, 7/8" for 10 string. |
|
|
|
Clark Frady
From:
West Columbia, S. C.
|
Posted 30 Aug 2004 8:58 am
|
|
| I see, so the 12 string requires a longer bar, but, why a larger diameter bar? |
|
|
|
Bob Tuttle
From:
Republic, MO 65738
|
Posted 30 Aug 2004 10:40 am
|
|
| The 1" bar gives you a little more sustain, especially on the lower strings. The 7/8" bar is lighter, which makes it easier to move around on the neck. I've been using a 15/16" bar for about a year and have found it to be a nice compromise. |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 30 Aug 2004 1:30 pm
|
|
I think you will find that the 15/16" bar is just like the 3 bears story: not too big, not too small, but JUST right!
Erv |
|
|
|
Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
|
Posted 30 Aug 2004 1:49 pm
|
|
Apparently girth matters; but length doesn't. 
All are mentioning diameter (which converts to circumference), and are not mentioning length. Of course, length does not matter as much. Who needs to cover all strings at once?
Rick
|
|
|
|
Clark Frady
From:
West Columbia, S. C.
|
Posted 30 Aug 2004 1:56 pm
|
|
Yes, well, I was really concerened with the diameter of the bar, I understand the lengths issue. I got a 7/8" bar when I got my Carter Steel Guitar, but, I wanted to know if I could benefit by getting a larger bar, or stick to the 7/8" bar. I was thinking of getting one of those bars from B.J.S. and really wanted to know the inside and outs of the size before spending the money for another bar.
------------------
Clark Frady
|
|
|
|
Pat Carlson
From:
Sutton, Nebraska, R.I.P.
|
Posted 30 Aug 2004 3:40 pm
|
|
Clark, let us know how the larger bar works when you get it.I,m considering a 15/16" the 7/8 just seems to small in my large paw 
------------------
The Lone Prairie Steeler Pat
|
|
|
|
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
|
Posted 30 Aug 2004 3:59 pm
|
|
I switched from 7/8" to 15/16" about three years ago (after thirty years!) - I think it gives me a nicer tone, but I know it fills my (very large) hand better. I have more confidence with it as a result and I'd never go back.
RR |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 31 Aug 2004 3:14 pm
|
|
Actually, it's the weight (mass) of the bar (and not the size), that affects the sustain. But, if we consider that most bars are made from some form of solid steel, very small bars (under 3/4") may sacrifice some sustaining quality. Most steel bars between 3/4" and 1" show negilgible differences in sound. Chrome plated bars slide a little easier than stainless steel, or tool steel. That's because the chrome plating is generally harder and smoother.
Play with the bar that's easiest for you to control, and doesn't cramp your hand. Keep in mind that a heavier bar may tend to "smooth out" your playing, but it might slow you down and cause fret visibility problems in the higher registers. Smaller bars offer more speed (lighter weights are easier to move), but they don't have that "smoothing" quality, and they're usually harder to hold onto. In the end, it should be based on your physiology and personal preference for "feel" and playability.
Also, keep in mind that proper bar control (correct pressure and vibrato technique) will do far more for your "sustain" than just changing to a bigger bar. |
|
|
|
Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
|
Posted 31 Aug 2004 3:36 pm
|
|
quote:
I think you will find that the 15/16" bar is just like the 3 bears story: not too big, not too small, but JUST right!
I agree with Erv.
------------------
84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.
|
|
|
|
Clark Frady
From:
West Columbia, S. C.
|
Posted 31 Aug 2004 6:23 pm
|
|
Having given this much thought. I have decided to give the 15/16" a try for two reasons. Although it is a happy medium, I wanted a larger bar since my hands are larger and the 7/8" feels a little small, and the 1" may be too big, I went for the 15/16" thinking the extra little weight and the larger size may not have a great impact on my playing ability since I have only been playing about a month now. I probably don't know enough to even notice a big difference compared to some of you guys and girls who have been playing for quite some time now.
When the B.J.S. bar comes in, I will let you know any significant changes that I feel. And a little plug for Reggie Duncan for a good price on the bar, and the very fast service, (quick response and e-mails) also, some help in determining the sizes of each and weights. Thanks Reggie!
------------------
Clark Frady
"I steel for fun!!"
[This message was edited by Clark Frady on 31 August 2004 at 07:25 PM.] |
|
|
|
Clark Frady
From:
West Columbia, S. C.
|
Posted 13 Sep 2004 1:17 pm
|
|
The bar came in today. From the start, the 15/16" Bar does feel a little better in hand, as if I get a better grip and control. The tonal quality is really nice, I just hope it holds up better than the others (as it should). I think it gives a more mellow tone. Will have to play a little longer, but, since I am new at the PSG, speed is not an issue as of yet. This was a worthy purchase. Thanks all who replied.
------------------
Clark Frady
"I steel for fun!!"
|
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 13 Sep 2004 1:38 pm
|
|
Clark, you said...
| Quote: |
| ...I have only been playing about a month now. |
And then you said...
| Quote: |
| I just hope it holds up better than the others... |
Did you actually "wear out" a bar in a month?
At any rate, I think you'll be happy with your new one! Also, keep in mind that old strings are much harder on a bar's finish than new strings. If you're playing regularly, change your strings when they get (visually) dull, and your bar will last significantly longer. To make your strings last longer, wipe them off (top and bottom) every time you get up from playing the guitar.
|
|
|
|
Paul Warnik
From:
Illinois,USA
|
Posted 13 Sep 2004 2:11 pm
|
|
Just got the BJS 15/16" at Scotty's I like it  |
|
|
|
Roger Edgington
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
|
Posted 13 Sep 2004 3:22 pm
|
|
| Most of the time I use a stainless 1 1/16 bar and switch sometimes to a smaller bar for faster songs with a lot of bar movement. The larger bar sounds better to my ear and is easier for me to do back slants. I'm actually fussier about the length. I have short fingers so I like a short bar so I can maintain control with the bar up on it's tip for special single string things. |
|
|
|
Clark Frady
From:
West Columbia, S. C.
|
Posted 13 Sep 2004 6:35 pm
|
|
To answer your question Donny, when I ordered the Starter, I also ordered an Ernie Ball bar, which does a decent job for the money ($1 however, I started noticing small scratches on the finish and I don't play very aggressive or hard, and it seems to be noisier than the new bar. However, after having said that earlier, I realized that it wasn't necesarily scratches that was making those extraneous noises, it was due to the light weight bar not making good contact with the strings and causing extra buzz noises. The newer bar is larger and heavier causing a smoother and mellower sound from the strings. I wish I was good enough to wear out a bar like that (grin).
------------------
Clark Frady
"I steel for fun!!"
|
|
|
|
John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
|
Posted 13 Sep 2004 10:35 pm
|
|
The best sound I ever got on PSG in 55-yrs. was with a BJS 15/16” Tone-Bar!
------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
(2)-Fender ’49–’50 T–8 Customs
Fender ’65 Reissue Twin-Reverb Custom™ 15”
click here
click hereclick hereclick here |
|
|
|
KENNY KRUPNICK
From:
Columbus, Ohio
|
Posted 23 Sep 2004 8:18 pm
|
|
I use a BJS 15/16",12-string bar on the doubleneck-10.  .Nothing else can give a better tone in my opinion. |
|
|
|
Golf2steel
From:
Romulus, Michigan.
|
Posted 23 Sep 2004 9:04 pm
|
|
I'm using a 1"& 1/8" titanium that a good friend Bob (Happy) Robinson gave me, best picker I've ever heard bar none. It's big and light, best bar I've ever used. I tried to get some more made but, having no luck. This is just my opinion.
Harley |
|
|
|
David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
|
|
|
|
Richard Brandt
From:
Waymart, Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 24 Sep 2004 1:50 am
|
|
| Thers isn't a man alive who can hold a sustain in the upper register of a steel guitar better than Jerry Byrd and he uses a 3/4 x2 3/4 bar |
|
|
|
David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
|
Posted 24 Sep 2004 5:33 am
|
|
For sustain it seems clearly to be an issue of weight not girth.
The 1" bars are significantly heavier.
for normal bars I have :
a 7/8 Twister double ender,
a Red Rajah 7/8 and
a 15/16th BJS
each has it's benifits for tone versus spead.
I did some timing tests C6 neck F and C fret 5 for all times
The Twister is cool, but doesn't lift as well as the RR.
A 6-7 count
About to same for the Red Rajah, maybe a half second longer. so a 6.5-7.5 count
The BJS sustains very well, but is quite slow.
A full 9 count.
I also have a Black Phonix 7/8ths to 3/4 tapered, a cousin of the RR. A 7-8 count
I find this bar very good for fast stuff on C6, and like the increased weight on the low strings., combined with the finger stickiness for lifts.
I might eventually get a 15/16th to 7/8th tapered BPhoenix bar too.
I also have one of David Masons large acrilic bars he was nice enough to send me.
It is very interesting. Cool for single note short sustain lines in a sitar like feel but without the buzzing sound. It is VERY fast.
it sustains to a 5 count, but that's not an issue and in some ways can be helpfull too.
Not terrilbly scientific, but a functional test I did with each bar a few times and averaged.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 24 September 2004 at 06:37 AM.] |
|
|
|
