P/P split between G#-F# lever and B pedal?

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 4 Sep 2004 3:33 am

On a Push-Pull, what is the best way to split the B-pedal with the knee lever that drops G# toF# on string 6?
The split result should be a G.
I do not have any split screws on the guitar.

I have searched the forum, and found a clever way which involves the A-pedal. But this has limitations.

I also found another post involving drilling an extra hole in the B pedal bellcrank for string 6, but this post was not clear how exactly to set this up.

Any suggestions?

------------------
Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 6 Sep 2004 6:39 am

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 6 Sep 2004 10:27 am

Push Pulls, by the nature of their design, will not allow splits. The raise always dominates. That's one reason why All Pull steels became mainstream.
R B

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 6 Sep 2004 2:48 pm

A little mechanical surgery on the pullrod for the G#-A would be required to do the trick.
The pullrod needs to be cut in two and routed trough a split finger that moves when the lowering knee-lever is engaged so the pullrod wont pull the raise -finger as far as before.
I have tried toshow how I believe it could be done. The split-finger needs to be connected to a cross-shaft that movescounterclockwise as seen below and hinged at the pivotpoint. The pullrod must be connected to two different points on the finger to allow the pull to stop at a different place (the G note)
Finding out the exact points where the pivotpoint and the pullrod that goes to the raisefinger should be drilled to get the desired effect is another problem. But should be possible to solve. The closer to the pivot point the pullrod is the greater effect it will have on the pullrod that goes to the raise finger.

<pre>
Shown w Bpedal pressed
_
|_|cross-shaft G#-F# lower
|
o <--pivot point
o--------------------Raise rod G#-A
Bpedal----o
pullrod

_
|_|cross-shaft G#-F# lower
\
o <--pivot point
o--------------------Raise rod G#-A
Bpedal----o
pullrod

Shown w Bpedal &
G#-F# lower
</pre>

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 06 September 2004 at 03:49 PM.]

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 6 Sep 2004 4:58 pm

You could alwasy just raise string 7 a whole tone to G#. You could always just slide back two frets. Played PP's for years no need to drill holes etc.

Larry Behm

rhcarden · Post by **rhcarden** » 6 Sep 2004 6:10 pm

I lower string 6 with pedal 1 (G# to F#) and pull it back to G with RKL. Use the pull rod from the B pedal, a collar, and bellcrank tuner. My RKL also lowers the 2nd and 9th. It doesn't effect the 6th string if pedal 1 is not pressed.

------------------
Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 8 Sep 2004 11:44 am

Larry, I am working on that as well. Thanks for the reminder.

Bengt and Bob, Thank you for your suggestions. I am trying to get clarity on your explanations, but I cannot fully understand how to implement your ideas.

Maybe you could explain the connections by using the numbers and letters in this drawing of my existing setup? (Or maybe tell me first what I should change in the drawing, and when I have done the changes, then explain the connections.)

Thanks again for all your trouble.

------------------
Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy
[This message was edited by Peter on 08 September 2004 at 03:09 PM.]

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 9 Sep 2004 4:16 am

After seeing the drawing I had to modify the idea of how I thought it could be done.
An additional pushrod and some custom parts might do it.
Peter, check your Email for modified drawing.

Bengt

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 9 Sep 2004 4:30 pm

Peter please post the new picture here when you get it, inquiring minds want to know.

Larry Behm

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 9 Sep 2004 9:54 pm

Bengt, thank you so much for your suggestion.
Here is your drawing and explanation.
--------------------------------------
(Copy of Bengt's email)

I edited your drawing to show how I think it can be done. First you need an additional push rod and a couple custom-parts.
How it works, or is supposed to work.

The raise finger on the 3rd string will function as a stop for the B pedal so it will stay in the same position when the lower is engaged. The position of the collar & locknut to the left of D in the diagram will decide which note you get when both the lower and the B pedal is pressed.
It will require some custom parts between the pullrod and the pushrod but it should be not too difficult.

In my mind I can see this working. But I can't try it since I don't have any P/P guitars.
Hopefully you can post the edited drawing on SGF and get some feedback from others if it will work or not.

Sincerely
Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Peter on 09 September 2004 at 10:55 PM.]

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 12 Sep 2004 2:32 pm

Bob Carden, I tried your suggestion: "Use the pull rod from the B pedal, a collar, and bellcrank tuner."
I can get the G as you mentioned, but I cannot get the A when I use the B pedal on its own.
How would you do that?

rhcarden · Post by **rhcarden** » 12 Sep 2004 8:03 pm

Hi Peter,

When a string is lowered (In this case 6th string G# to F#), the lowering finger is pushed back to the lowering adjustment screw. There is slack in the raise rod adjustment that allows the raise finger to fall back with the lowering finger. If you add another raise, using the pull rod (B pedal, G# to A)to a different pedal,(I use RKL, But you can use any pedal or lever that works for you) you can pull the F# to G. You will need a bellcrank, bellcrank tuner, and a collar (Look at the 4th string E to F and E to F# pulls and use the same set up). This will not effect the B pedal! It works only when the string has been lowered.

Note: You do not use the B pedal to get the G.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 14 Sep 2004 9:47 pm

Thanks guys,
I am experimenting with the suggestions.

Are there any other suggestions?
Jerry? Bryan? Carl? Mike? Bobby? Bobbe?

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 18 Sep 2004 7:37 am

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 21 Sep 2004 1:30 pm

I have been looking how to fit Bengt's suggestion in the small space of my SD10. No success so far.
I am also contemplating Bob's idea and get the G from another lever.

Could there be another solution for a P/P?
How to split the G#>F# when mashing the B pedal?