right hand beta, trouble with then middle finger

John Orr · Post by **John Orr** » 10 Sep 2015 3:57 pm

Hello all.

I have taken on the Jeff Newman course, Right Hand Alpha. I have made strides with the palm blocking using my thumb and index. However Jeff focuses on the thumb and middle finger which is so unnatural. As a life time pick blocker returning to the instrument after thirty years hiatus, I want to get it right but have read other posts which stress individual style. My middle finger just wants to get caught on the strings, even though I believe I have adjusted the finger pick optimally. If I want to pick slow then that would be the end of it. But I was a reasonably fast picker with pick blocking.

Since Buddy and Doug are my favs, I want to incorporate that. But has anybody overcome the middle finger challenge, or found away around while still picking with speed, cleanliness(?) and precision?

Thanks,
John from Oregon

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 11 Sep 2015 3:05 am

I have not been a fast picker in a past life, but like John I have also tackled Right Hand Alpha and I did find the thumb and second thing a bit odd. But I've stuck with it and also started to realise how many great players make it their primary grip. I find that my index finger lingers above and beyond the second so that it could actually pick the string above; it doesn't get in the way. Tonally, there is a bigger contrast between the two strings than there would be with an adjacent grip; the higher string is brighter and carries the melody clearly. Oddly, Jeff Newman mentions somewhere that 1 & 2 together is tough to synchronise and requires practice! But then I guess he never played the trumpet.

But as I say, I'm not missing the ability to fly with T&1 as I never had it!

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 11 Sep 2015 6:10 am

I think that either thumb and index or middle fingers is fine. Emmons used the middle, Doug Jernigan uses the index as I recall- pick whatever feels the best and get on with it.

John Orr · Post by **John Orr** » 11 Sep 2015 6:25 am

So when configuring the fingers and thumb for a picking pattern, there is no discernible advantage to using the middle finger as the dominant form?

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 11 Sep 2015 7:52 am

I'm thinking that it's whatever you are most comfortable with.

John Orr · Post by **John Orr** » 11 Sep 2015 9:38 am

This morning I extended (uncurled)the finger pick to give more range of motion and margin of error. that helped a lil' bit.

Jeff Harbour · Post by **Jeff Harbour** » 11 Sep 2015 10:17 am

Since you are a Pick-Blocker wanting to incorporate some Palm-Blocking, I would recommend Joe Wright's Pick/Palm Blocking DVD. He is a Pick-Blocker who has mastered the switch. After that, I think the Newman material may be easier to grasp.

Jeff H.

Paul Hoaglin · Post by **Paul Hoaglin** » 11 Sep 2015 10:28 am

I posted my similar problems with my middle finger a while back, which started for me when I switched fingerpicks. It's taken me a very long time, but slowly I've readjusted my small motor skills and have regained a bit of my middle finger dexterity (which was never very great to begin with) to where it's a bit more reliable. But I certainly feel your pain!

I'm the last person to give any advice, as a poor novice player, but my belief is that perseverance and mindful practise will help quite a bit. Best of luck!

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 11 Sep 2015 11:16 am

In my teaching of dozens of students I've encountered all sorts of styles and issues related to picking fingers.

Some of it comes down to anatomy, which varies quite a bit from player to player, and may preclude using the index or middle for some players.

For me, my middle finger seems to pick with more force, thus better tone, than index, so I tend to use that combo the most (and also because Newman and Buddy both used it to great effect).

But more and more practice using the index has increased its strength, tone and accuracy, so I'm working that finger back into the mix.

I do feel that to play today's modern style of pick blocking, it's essential to have all 3 fingers involved, so I encourage students to use everything they can. Why throw away a finger?

I agree with pal Jim Palenscar, find what works for you, go with that, and don't worry!

I'm a complete hybrid pick and palm blocker these days, and rely on both to play what I want in a clean, efficient and modern-sounding method. I recommend that to students, it's not either/or in my view.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 11 Sep 2015 1:01 pm

i always felt that the thumb and middle finger approach felt most comfortable and natural for me.

Ben Edmonds · Post by **Ben Edmonds** » 11 Sep 2015 2:41 pm

I pick blocked for the first six or so years I played because it just felt right for me at first and Palm blocking felt very awkward but I never liked the tone I got plus the style I prefer is mostly all palm blocked.
Strangely, after not even seeing a steel for four years, when I picked it back up I just started Palm blocking using mostly thumb and middle. I couldn't be more pleased with the results because I get a much better tone and a nice bouncy feel. Where I used to wonder why on earth anyone would use mostly thumb and middle, now I can't imagine not using mostly those fingers. Just sounds fuller and powerful.
I guess that doesn't address the question but it's my experience and I found it strange.
To me it's what produces the tone and feel I prefer that counts. Weird that after a four year hiatus, I came back so much stronger than before

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 11 Sep 2015 2:56 pm

i never even heard the term 'pick blocking' until a few years ago. i just played for 40 years and tried not to let notes ring where not wanted.
never practiced a specific technique to accomplish that.

Philip Mitrakos · Post by **Philip Mitrakos** » 11 Sep 2015 4:14 pm

I've been finger picking my whole life ..
Travis style on the flat top and scruggs style on the banjo ..so when I came to the steel guitar I never gave it a thought ..finger picking just came natural to me after a life time of picking .
I've cut down and reshaped thumb picks to look like left handed thumb picks..and yep ...there is such a thing as left handed thumb picks..filing em down brought the tip closer to the joint and farther from the tip of the thumb..I go back and forth on that one these days..and I think alot of players may be using way too heavy of a finger pick ...I've gone down as far as .015 and settled in at .018..anything heavier just seems too hard and stiff to me ..loosing touch with the string...just my 4 cents

John Orr · Post by **John Orr** » 12 Sep 2015 9:10 am

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