Does Herbie use pedals on George Jones's Why Baby Why?

Peter Shenkin · Post by **Peter Shenkin** » 19 Aug 2015 7:39 am

This was recorded in '55, and to my ear, Herb Remington is using pedals on it -- especially toward the end of the song. But of course this would be unusual for him in that era. In fact, the steel playing has that very diatonic sound later associated with Nashville, which is also unusual for Herbie (who, by the way, just might be my favorite steel guitar player of all time).

The wikipedia page says he uses pedals, which I've always assumed. But in http://www.americansongwriter.com/2015/ ... -u-153773/, Otis Blackmon, who wrote some songs for Jones, refers to "lap steel" on Why Baby Why. So I ante'd up my $5 just so I could ask the experts....

Thanks,
-P.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Aug 2015 7:57 am

Here it is: https://youtu.be/alxT2xDZX7Y

Sounds like A6th non-pedal to me.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 19 Aug 2015 8:03 am

Steel guitar history question--Why E9? How did that tuning evolve? Was Bud Isaacs involved at all?

Peter Shenkin · Post by **Peter Shenkin** » 19 Aug 2015 9:43 am

b0b wrote:Here it is: https://youtu.be/alxT2xDZX7Y

Sounds like A6th non-pedal to me.

Whoa. Non-pedal for sure.

The version I have listed as the original 1955 recording is different. Listening around on youtube, it's this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lFT4E0 ... obd96qzmN8.

The liner notes on the album I have gives the steel player as Herbie and claims that this is the 1955 recording. And I guess it's possible that it's an alternate take with pedals, or maybe it's not 1955, and maybe it's not Herbie. But it's not the original release.

Issue resolved.

Thanks, b0b.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Aug 2015 9:57 am

That's obviously not the original recording, Peter. It's E9th pedal steel, and it's not Herb Remington (Herb doesn't play E9th). It's a remake, probably from the late 60's.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Aug 2015 10:06 am

Stephen Gambrell wrote:Steel guitar history question--Why E9? How did that tuning evolve? Was Bud Isaacs involved at all?

Very different subject, asked and answered in this topic: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=31909

Peter Shenkin · Post by **Peter Shenkin** » 19 Aug 2015 10:13 am

b0b wrote:

That's obviously not the original recording, Peter. It's E9th pedal steel, and it's not Herb Remington

Well, that suspicion is what caused me to ask in the first place.

To further belabor the point....

According to PragueFrank http://countrydiscoghraphy2.blogspot.cz ... s%20George, the next recording after the 1955 recording was 1965 with Pitney.

Furthermore, the recording I thought was the original is in stereo, so it can't be '55. (However, I didn't realize that, because when I ripped the CD to digital, I said, "Oh, it's 1955, so I'll rip it in mono to save space". But putting the CD in the slot, damned if it ain't stereo.)

Still, that cut is listed as the '55 Starday recording both on the Mercury reissue I have been mentioning and on another album entitled "Early Starday Recordings" -- which it clearly isn't.

To quote Rex Griffin, "And So I Lost Again". (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAeKv9eyx0)

I really appreciate the clarification. Another lesson: Don't believe everything you read. (Seems I've heard that one before.)

-P.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Aug 2015 10:22 am

The 1955 recording "Why Baby Why" was Starday's first big hit. In later years, Jones would have little good to say about the music production at Starday, recalling to NPR in 1996 that "it was a terrible sound. We recorded in a small living room of a house on a highway near Beaumont. You could hear the trucks. We had to stop a lot of times because it wasn't soundproof, it was just egg crates nailed on the wall in the big old semi trucks would go by and make a lot of noise and we'd have to start over again."

Lee Dassow · Post by **Lee Dassow** » 19 Aug 2015 11:49 am

Not sure about this, but I thought Herbie played
a triple 8 Fender Stringmaster. I remember having
an album of his with him holding that guitar. Anyone know? Sorry for the topic drift. T.L.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Aug 2015 12:24 pm

Looks like a Fender to me.

Lee Dassow · Post by **Lee Dassow** » 19 Aug 2015 3:19 pm

Thats it bOb! T.L.

Tom Keller · Post by **Tom Keller** » 19 Aug 2015 6:28 pm

Sounds like non pedal to me and it doesn't sound very much like Herbie's playing.

Tom Keller

Bob Russell · Post by **Bob Russell** » 19 Aug 2015 7:22 pm

According to "The Starday Story" by Nathan Gibson, it was Herb Remington, hired by the fiddle player on the date.

Peter Shenkin · Post by **Peter Shenkin** » 20 Aug 2015 8:52 am

Back to the original question. (I should know, since I asked it.

)

I said that I couldn't find the non-original recording I had on PragueFrank's site. Someone else found it there. I missed it because I was searching for "WHY BABY WHY", and this particular cut is listed as "WHY, BABY, WHY"!

So, for completeness, here's the info on it. Certainly an all-star cast:

April 1960 Bradley Film and Recording Studio, 804 16th Ave. South, Nashville, TN â€“ George Jones (George Jones [vcl], Grady Martin [gt], Harold Bradley [gt], Jerry Kennedy [gt], Hank Garland [gt], Buddy Emmons or Jimmy Day [steel], ? [bass], Buddy Harman [drums], Tommy Jackson and/or Rufus Thibodeaux [fiddle], Floyd Cramer or Hargus Robbins [piano]. Producer: Pappy Daily)

Originally released on Starday 60621, "George Jones Greatest Hits". So, since it was on a Starday release, you'd have to be careful or knowledgable or both to know that it wasn't the original recording.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 20 Aug 2015 9:50 am

Funny how it says "Buddy Emmons or Jimmy Day [steel]". That's exactly what I thought when I heard it.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 20 Aug 2015 9:59 am

That's what I heard too. I recall Buddy being asked about some of these sessions and saying that he & Jimmy were crossing paths so much and sharing a lot of musical mindset at the time.
So he, himself, couldn't always name the player when he heard these songs.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 20 Aug 2015 1:26 pm

Peter Shenkin wrote:
Originally released on Starday 60621, "George Jones Greatest Hits". So, since it was on a Starday release, you'd have to be careful or knowledgable or both to know that it wasn't the original recording.

If it says "Starday 60621" on Frank's site, it's his error entirely--and would be one of hundreds of errors on his site.

It's a Mercury LP. Originally released on Mercury, not Starday. Nothing to do with Starday. Jones was off Starday by 1959.

Mercury and Starday had a partnership briefly for a year or so circa 1957-58 and there are a number of country 45s that came out on the "Mercury-Starday" label.

This LP came after that and is purely a Mercury release.

Here's a pic of the LP and a sample 45 from Jones on Mercury-Starday from early 1958.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 20 Aug 2015 1:30 pm

I've got Eskimo Pie on a cassette. Great novelty song. Cracks me up. She's my Eskeemo baby she's my Eskeemo pie....

Peter Shenkin · Post by **Peter Shenkin** » 20 Aug 2015 9:16 pm

Heh. And I thought SR meant Starday.

But I guess the photo doesn't lie.

... Umm ... wait a second ... there's Photoshop, isn't there? ....

No commas in Why Baby Why on the album cover, either.

Thanks,
-P.

P.S. The trouble with opening your mouth in a new forum is that you might learn something....