Vintage or New Pedal Steel Guitar

Ben Morine · Post by **Ben Morine** » 3 Aug 2015 9:33 pm

Hi There Gents!

So I have been looking around at different PSG's to try and make a decision which one to upgrade to.

Obviously in Australia we don't have a lot of choice as PSG's don't come up for sale very often.

I have people tell me in the past that I should always buy a newer guitar as the vintage guitars are mostly worn and will require constant maintenance.

Being a long time 6 string player, I think the vintage guitars are the best!

What are your thoughts about this issue?

Thanks

Ben Morine

Bill L. Wilson · Post by **Bill L. Wilson** » 3 Aug 2015 10:57 pm

My Emmons LGII was shipped out of the factory in Jan. of '95. It had been used pretty steady for 10yrs. when I bought it in Nov. of '05. I have played it just about every weekend for 10yrs. 100's of gigs, in the hot sun, in the Oklahoma dust, in the rain, and the cold, and I wouldn't trade this steel for a brand new one....The cross shafts are wearing, as are the pedalrods, but when the time comes to rebuild, I'll either do it myself, or have it done.....I don't have any idea, the cost of shipping a steel to Aussie Land, but if your in the market for a new steel you might look to Fred Justice in Mesa Arizona. I've played his steels in Dallas, Tulsa, Phoenix, and they are fine guitars.

Greg Milton · Post by **Greg Milton** » 4 Aug 2015 12:04 am

Hi Ben,

When I bought my first proper steel I decided to get a new one, because I thought there would be too much difficulty finding someone locally to repair a vintage one or supply parts. I went with a Williams and have not regretted it for one second. I can get new parts very easily, as well as advice from the builder, Bill Rudolph, any time I need it. He's extremely helpful, and answers all my stupid questions with great patience. It's kind of like lifetime tech support!

On the other hand, this forum allows you to do repairs on vintage steels, with everyone chipping in with advice, and you can order most parts online.

If you're going for vintage, keep an eye on the Bris Steel website - they often have vintage steels up for sale.

Greg

Tom T Taylor · Post by **Tom T Taylor** » 4 Aug 2015 12:20 am

Hi,
I loved my old Sho Bud from the day I bought it.
But in reality, I dream now of something that could just play and play. And I am technically minded. Every hour spent on fixing is one less playing

Go new if you can IMO
Tom

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 4 Aug 2015 4:10 am

I'd buy new and leave the vintage stuff for us poor Americans to put up with. We'll manage... -L-

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 4 Aug 2015 4:28 am

Bring to this choice the same consideration you would bring to buying a car. Vintage MOJO vs. new performance and reliability, with the consideration of whether you are competent to take it apart and do work on it (or have access to such a mechanic).
If you can have the old steel inspected, pre-purchase, by an expert, it is not unreasonable to buy something with a history. Without expert guidance, it is a crapshoot.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 Aug 2015 5:08 am

A pedal steel is NOT a guitar with machinery under it, but rather a machine with guitary bits on top.
A vintage machine MAY be excellent, but it may also have four decades of "benign neglect" behind it.
I understand that there ARE other steel players down undah, if you want to go the vintage route, get one of them to play your prospect axe first.
You won't know what to look for, what to feel. You won't have the mental tools to know whether to buy or run.
THAT is why I caution newbies not to buy vintage.

Allan Kirby · Post by **Allan Kirby** » 4 Aug 2015 5:10 am

I feel that buying new is the best option. I have three pedal-steels, one new and two that are forty years old. The new one works well all the time and does not require the maintenance and constant tinkering that the older ones need. As well, the tone is quite comparable and it is not as heavy.

Rich Upright · Post by **Rich Upright** » 4 Aug 2015 6:12 am

Steels are the opposite of guitars. Whereas a new Tele or Strat can't even begin to compare to an old one, a steel is a mechanical device, & the newer the steel the more advanced & sophisticated the mechanisms have become. Go with new.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 4 Aug 2015 8:08 am

Go new,, Parts are expensive for older steels, in your neck of the woods, difficult to obtain, and a new guitar IF you maintain it, will most likely last as long as you do.

I myself prefer old steels, but I am forever working on them, replacing parts, fighting wear, adjusting to a lack of precision in the instrument etc..
When I have a new[or almost new] steel, I plug it in and play.. the old steels i play are a LOT more cantankerous, and need a lot more babysitting.. bob

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 4 Aug 2015 9:07 am

get whatever you want. since you have to ask, buy a new one.
but to counter the negative advice, i play 40 year old steels that don't require repair, tinkering or fuss.

Andy Eder · Post by **Andy Eder** » 4 Aug 2015 12:50 pm

chris ivey wrote:get whatever you want. since you have to ask, buy a new one.
but to counter the negative advice, i play 40 year old steels that don't require repair, tinkering or fuss.

I agree with Chris.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 4 Aug 2015 1:42 pm

My steel is 49 years old, mechanically very simple, with rock solid tuning stability, and tone to the bone.

Vintage gets my vote

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 4 Aug 2015 2:00 pm

chris ivey wrote:get whatever you want. since you have to ask, buy a new one.
but to counter the negative advice, i play 40 year old steels that don't require repair, tinkering or fuss.

Yeah, me too.. However the guy lives in Australia, and is relatively new to pedal steel.. If he buys a worn out clunker sight unseen he's in trouble..
In his case a new, modern steel is best....

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 Aug 2015 2:34 pm

If he wants vintage, BUY FROM A DEALER. The dealers here will have gone through them and make sure they're working right.
Just one more idea.

Andy Eder · Post by **Andy Eder** » 4 Aug 2015 2:43 pm

Lane Gray wrote:If he wants vintage, BUY FROM A DEALER. The dealers here will have gone through them and make sure they're working right.
Just one more idea.

Lane has a good point.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 4 Aug 2015 2:44 pm

Lane Gray wrote:If he wants vintage, BUY FROM A DEALER. The dealers here will have gone through them and make sure they're working right.
Just one more idea.

I would go along with that Lane.... A good dealer would make sure its right so he doesn't have to deal with an unhappy customer... You'll pay more, but a dealer generally won't sell worn out junk... I have bought some really badly worn steels over the years from private guys that said "good condition"... bob

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 4 Aug 2015 2:45 pm

Jackson Steels are newer guitars with a sound similar to a 1960s Sho-Bud. I play a Jackson Blackjack Custom and it's a wonderful guitar-love the tone, looks, playability, sound and everything about it!

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 4 Aug 2015 6:28 pm

Another vote for new. They're all excellent these days.
I think the toughest decision would be which one to get.
If you're in the market for a new steel, the world is your oyster.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 4 Aug 2015 6:52 pm

I am not sure I like the two options presented. ...New or Vintage leaves out the category of Modern Newer used guitars.

As a rule of thumb....a good reputable modern steel approximately 10 years old and sometimes hardly played in a D10 configuration can generally be bought for 2200 to 2800...median of 2500 for a mica finish and a few hundred more for a nice lacquer finish. ...

A vintage 40 year old Shobud would still need 2000 plus... usually had the hell played out of them becausethat was the golden era and they had popularity amongst gigging musicians of the day... at least that's what I presume because otherwise was too young 1970s to know that for sure. . .... and a vintage Emmons 3000 plus....

Most new quotes for a comparable brand new D10 sit in the 4000 to 6000 range. . zums are selling for a premium in the used marketplace. .. at least right up with Emmons... and often even a premium to Emmons modern Legrande models.

An alternate popular vintage steel includes 1970s era MSAs... not exactly a collectible guitar in most eyes. .. but solid and have mechanics as good or better than most modern guitars can be had for 1800 most days.

So in total. .. the best bang for the buck is probably found in respected brands that have existed in the past ten years.

I guess what I am saying is that for a starting guitar. ..I would probably pick a used Rains...Fessenden.. Carter.. Justice... and others over a Vintage Emmons or Shobud...or new guitar.

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 4 Aug 2015 9:03 pm

If I lived in Australia, I'd be asking Noel Amstead (forgive me if I've misspelled his name) the manufacturer of the Anapeg steel guitar. Maybe the best steel guitar ever made? Anyway, if there is a guy that could steer you onto a guitar down under, it'd probably be him or someone who owns one of his guitars. I'd have to agree, though, that new is generally better because of technical innovations in the changer and the underside, and because they are lighter, as a rule, than the durable Sierras, MSAs, etc., of the 70's and 80's. Tone is another subject altogether, and very subjective.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 8 Aug 2015 7:14 pm

I dont think you could go wrong with any of the newer guitars on the market. When it comes to the older ones, they too are my preference however like many people will tell you they can be worn out or sometimes parts are hard to find. As far as new ones go I think Mullen are good instruments.

Peter Nylund · Post by **Peter Nylund** » 8 Aug 2015 9:44 pm

Go new! Every time you buy a vintage guitar a steel guitar builder loses his income.

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 8 Aug 2015 10:21 pm

Problem with steel guitars is that they are, for the most part, custom made. This makes volume production (even if there is demand) a no-go. This, in turn makes even the more prolific brands, i.e. MSA, Emmons, Zum, Sho-Bud, Fessy, etc., etc., a very small manufacturing operation. Without volume, there is no need to expand the operation and make a "permanent" company. So with the loss of a few key personnel the manufacturer no longer exists. Sho-Bud, the old MSA, Sierra, all made excellent guitars in their day, but the original companies are no longer with us to provide support, spare parts and advice. So, buy a new one, but don't expect the manufacturer to be around in ten or twenty years if past experience is any indication. And if you decide on new, be sure to buy one that for now, at least, is pretty popular. Then you MIGHT be able to get the gizmo repaired when it goes belly-up later. This isn't likely to change until some standard parts are adopted and used by multiple manufacturers. No need for a half dozen varieties of cross shafts, pull fingers and so on. Standard parts would reduce the cost of the guitar and provide better access to replacement parts down the road with having to resort to custom machining or scrounging for surviving parts from a steel guitar repair shop's junk yard.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 9 Aug 2015 1:16 am

Well, for sure if you are not mechanical by nature don't buy old or older. Don't buy any instrument that may require turning it upside down !

BUT..

If you are not afraid to turn it upside down, take it apart, clean and lube every part, put it all back together and set it up to your liking , then old or older is not out of the question.

I currently own two Pedal Steels, one mid 70's one late 70's, I have another one coming next week, early 80's. I just sold the newer instrument being a 2004 build.For the last 6 months the instrument that came to every gig was the mid 70's axe. Yes, I tore down and rebuilt the late 70's and mid 70's axes and they are mechanically as sound as any new instrument on the market. Sure they lack in the latest design feature set but that does not prevent them from being played regularly. Quite frankly, if I didn't sell the 2004 axe I was going to tear it down this fall for a complete cleaning and lube. It is 11 years old.

Regarding buying new to purchase from a builder, well, I would like to have done that and it was my initial plan last year, but I don't have the patience to wait 12 to 18 months for delivery. It's not about money, it's about time.

So here's the other caveat, if you are not mechanical by nature , owning a Pedal Steel, regardless of it's age, vintage, new, barely new , barely used etc at some point is going to require some maintenance and will present the owner with some stress points ! Something as simple as using the wrong gauge string can send an owner of any instrument into the tar pit of anger and frustration !

Understanding what you are buying , just like anything else, is the key. Buying an early 60's Sho Bud, if you understand whats in front of you , go for it, buying a Push Pull, if you understand whats in front of you, go for it. I think the newest Push Pull is around 1984 or 1985 but yet there are tons of them out there being played every day. 30 years old or older...Yes true, newer "all pull" guitars are the easiest to work on and configure but they still have moments of question and can send the owner into the pit of distress.

"I just bought a brand new car, it wont start, whats wrong with it "?

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