I hate myself

Ned McIntosh · Post by **Ned McIntosh** » 30 Jul 2015 10:22 pm

The pedal steel is full of secrets, and it yields them up slowly, tantalisingly...but eventually it allows you to discover them. It takes time. How do you think the greats got that way? - they spent decades at it, and inevitably they got good. You can't give up. If you do - you fail.

Each one of us who sits behind this impossible collision between a zither, autoharp and a coffee-table, must be prepared for frustration, tedium - and occasional "lightbulb" moments. For me, it is the lightbulb moments that are inspirational. They keep me going because when they happen it's like your brain just entered an expanded universe which was there all the time, you just had a mental-barrier which prevented you from seeing it.

Let me give just one small example. Decades ago, the late Cal Smith had quite a hit with a song called "Country Bumpkin". Now there's a steel turnaround in which is played (I think) three times in all and I really wanted to work out how to play it. It's a pretty lick, and I loved the sound of it.

I tried analysing it, looked for it at every position logic told me it should be...where it started, where it went, how it got there. And I got nowhere...no matter how I analysed it, I just couldn't get that lick to work. Logic wasn't working, yet I fully believed this instrument was a logical, knowable and comprehensible thing. (I still do.)

One afternoon I came home from my workplace. It had been a very bad day and I was not in a good mood. Certainly not in the mood for playing steel. But something made me sit down, pick up the bar. I placed it at a fret, played the first part of the lick, then slid the bar up, changed pedals and played the second part of the lick. Just like that. In a foul mood, browned-off with the whole world...and the lick was there, waiting to be played and I played it without even thinking about how I was going to play it.

It was as if, having discovered all the ways how not to play the lick, the only thing left was the right way to play it, and that didn't need any thinking at all. It just took time.

To this day I still can't explain how that happened, but I do recall sitting there, slightly stunned, staring at the fretboard for a couple of minutes, wondering how many more secrets were in this thing and how long would I have to live to find them?

I still don't know the answer to either of those two last questions, by the way. But time spent noodling around on the steel, no matter how wasted, futile and unproductive you think it might be, isn't wasted at all.

Sometimes you have to find all the ways not to play before you can find the way to play.

Stephen Williams · Post by **Stephen Williams** » 30 Jul 2015 11:40 pm

Some interesting posts.

Sometimes it's like listening to Shakespeare: you just have to lie down and let it waft over you. Let go and the meaning comes. If you try to go in and force it it will bite you.

And be your own player. If you can't play a lick like they do, make it easier and play what you can. It will always be better because it's YOU. Whoever wrote the lick it was THEM

Chris Linck · Post by **Chris Linck** » 31 Jul 2015 6:10 am

Well, I never expected such sweet outpourings of well wishing and advice. I am blown away by this community! I belong to many groups...car guys, gun guys, fly fishing guys but this group takes the prize for understanding what I am feeling about my guitar. I am a person used to excelling at what I do. I pride myself on being a little brighter light bulb than the GE on the next shelf.
The pedal Steel has changed that thinking.
I want to thank all of you that graciously have lent me your thoughts, your encouragement and your admonitions.
I get it..I have always understood that this was not going to be easy and that I sound like crap most of the time and get lost every other minute on the fret board. So? so does everyone else as far as I know..I am 67 years old now and what ever time I have left is what God gives me. I am using this time to enrich my life with this instrument.
I posted the original because I knew that there would be some kindred spirits out there that would get a chuckle out of recognizing some of the thoughts and feelings I was sharing..I actually love my guitar.I admire it and enjoy just being in the same room with it as I watch the news.
Thank you all for kindness, honesty, concern and patience. I like being here and already feel like I am family.''
Chris

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 31 Jul 2015 9:13 am

Having a great degree of patience will be your best friend. And, the fact that you fly fish (an assumption made from your comment about other groups) proves you have a lot of patience. Even starting at a late time in your life, you can get to where you are having fun. It won't be long.

Chris Linck · Post by **Chris Linck** » 31 Jul 2015 9:39 am

Richard....I especially thank you for your encouragement..Means a lot, pal...

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 31 Jul 2015 4:09 pm

Quick, someone send this man the Winnie Winston book!! Trust me, if you get through that wonderful starter book you will be well on your way.

Daniel Policarpo · Post by **Daniel Policarpo** » 31 Jul 2015 5:31 pm

Michael Haselman wrote:Quick, someone send this man the Winnie Winston book!! Trust me, if you get through that wonderful starter book you will be well on your way.

There is some really good stuff in there! It got me well on the way.

J R Rose · Post by **J R Rose** » 31 Jul 2015 5:51 pm

I am with James Jacoby. Just play what you hear in your head. It is a great thing to be able to sound like some of the greats but as a long time mentor told me just play what you can play and the rest will come. Thanks, J.R.

Ronnie Boettcher · Post by **Ronnie Boettcher** » 1 Aug 2015 5:45 am

Chris, welcome to the insane world of pedal steel. When you wrote your first entry into this forum, you became part of the family. There are tons of good information on here, and don't ever think of asking a question, that you might think is dumb. You will be taken care of in the right way. Now that you have your feet wet, not only will you play the monster, you will be getting your tools out, and tinkering with the underside. Like all of us, trying to build a better mouse trap. You will be tinkering with it to make things easier for you. I don't think any steel player bought a steel, and not tried to change a adjustment, to make it play better for yourself. Good luck and happy seat time. Ronnie

John Prather · Post by **John Prather** » 1 Aug 2015 8:15 am

I played Hawaiian pedal steel as a child with Harlin Brothers. When I started playing E9th a few years back I found that my top side skills, Blocks, bar handling, pick stops and foot coordination transferred. BUT.. What really gave me a leg up was a sound knowledge of Basic Music Theory, the relationships of chords and a grasp of chord numbers. I, ii, iii, IV, V,V7 etc. Dominant chords, dominant 7th, all that stuff. When you quit trying to find Letter Chords and start looking at the PSG as a number system relative in each key it's a lot easier. It simplifies the process extraordinarily.

Pedal Steel was developed around a sound music theory approach and without it, the instrument can be rather daunting.

Here's HELP. University of Edinburgh in Scotland offers a 6 week music theory course FREE ON LINE with Coursera. It starts on MONDAY August 3. I RECOMMEND IT HIGHLY. Helps if you have a keyboard available but it's not required. Takes about 1 to 3 hours a week. The course and quizzes aren't hard, the FINAL is EXCRUCIATING. But then you're not doing it for credit.

DO IT NOW.. They only offer this course 2 or 3 times a year. As a plus, you'll also learn the difference between a Quaver and a Crotchet. Those hemi, semi, demi quavers are a hoot.

https://www.coursera.org/course/musictheory

Chris Linck · Post by **Chris Linck** » 1 Aug 2015 8:20 am

Thanks John..Course sounds interesting..I am not sure I understand what your talking about when you say the numbering system. I know Chord structure. Like E, A and B is a 1+4+5..That's true for every donminant major chord e thru the octive. Are we on the same page?

Thanks for the very good advice.

Chris

John Prather · Post by **John Prather** » 1 Aug 2015 8:31 am

Yes. I,IV,V but if you look at any given key, the number system makes the music transportable on the PSG. Any given major scale has 7 regular triad. These are 3 major chords, 3 minor chords and one diminished, the vii chord.

Majors are noted as I, IV, V. The minors are ii,iii,and vi, the vii chord is always diminished. The dominant 7 is V7.

On PSG, All I have to do is find a HOME KEY, then all of the chords are relative to that home fret. All the relative positions are the same. You only have to learn ONE KEY and all the others are exactly the same, relatively.

Chris Linck · Post by **Chris Linck** » 1 Aug 2015 8:33 am

I signed up!!Thanks John

Chris Linck · Post by **Chris Linck** » 1 Aug 2015 8:40 am

Yup, I'm with you partner...Only part I don't get is what a diminished chord is..Is that a minor like Em or Am..
Typically taking the root triad and flating the second note.. Like C Eb G is C minor...Is that a diminished chord?

Chris..

Bob Poole · Post by **Bob Poole** » 1 Aug 2015 8:49 am

The Forum is a great thing.There are a LOT of really nice folks here that will help you out any way they can !!! Chris,i started playing in spring of 1975...in a short time,3 months or so,i started playing in a trio with a couple of high school friends that were New Riders & Greatful Dead nuts,as was I...I had to teach myself as the only two steel players I knew back then were on the road so much,i had no one to learn from.eventually,by spring of 77,i was on the road also.it was pretty much "on the job training"...I had a career change( my other addiction was motorcycles)1985-2005...I didn't even own a steel.I never was really happy without one.2005 I started back then I gave it up again after a couple of years to be a full-time caregiver for my Mom....she used to give me a hard time for not being out playing as she knew how much I loved it,but my priority was her care.got married in 2010 & my wife & our pastor got me going again & I have not been happier.i had a year where my vision was too bad to play.i was seeing two or three fret lines.sold everything & got the needed eye surgery.in about a year,i was back in business with a steel & amp I truly love...in three months my playing has gotten to a point I could never get to years ago.Don't give up...it will come to you & soon you'll be surprising yourself with how far you've gotten.I'm 62 now & wish I had started at an earlier age(I was 22 when I got that first steel)now,i cannot imagine,in spite of the breaks I took,what my life would be like with pedal steel...62 & still learning & still surprising myself....pedal steel has been about the most rewarding thing I've ever done! Oh yeah,listen to some of the masters of the "Nashville" sound...I love country-rock,but listening to & learning from the Nashville pickers opened up a lot of doors that I hadn't been able to open before ! God bless

John Prather · Post by **John Prather** » 1 Aug 2015 9:16 am

A Major triad is a combination of 2 whole step and 1 1/2 steps. EXAMPLE C E G

A Minor triad is 1 1/2 steps and 2 steps. EXAMPLE A C E

A diminished triad is two 1 1/2 step intervals together. Example: B D F or A C Eb

An Augmented Chord is two 2 step intervals together.
EXAMPLE C E G# or E G# B#

The distance between C and E is 4 half steps, Called a Major 3rd. Between E and G is 3 half steps, called a Minor 3rd.

All of this, along with chords, intervals and how they relate is covered in the Edinburgh Course. You might have to take it twice.. But it's worth it. Don't give up. They're very good teachers.

John Prather · Post by **John Prather** » 1 Aug 2015 9:21 am

Don't worry, I took music for a year in college. I had introductory music theory at the college level and I was a vocalist at the time and didn't get it the first time. Don't get frustrated.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 1 Aug 2015 10:23 am

To make F#dim, take F major, raise the root.
Like most versions of Caravan feature the rhythm section going between A7 and A#dim7

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 1 Aug 2015 10:47 am

J R Rose wrote:I am with James Jacoby. Just play what you hear in your head. It is a great thing to be able to sound like some of the greats but as a long time mentor told me just play what you can play and the rest will come. Thanks, J.R.

Good advice, except he needs to know where and how to find those sounds.

A simple way to think of a diminished chord, is you flat the third and fifth. I don't really think you need to know all that interval stuff at this point. I've been playing 44 years, and I don't know that stuff, and I know how to use the diminished chord well.

But I do believe in at least some basic music theory. The most important to me when learning how to play was:

1) How to construct scales.
2) how to construct chords form those scales.

I probably forgot something I think is important.

You gain more as you learn to play. A lot of it without you even knowing. A lot of players on here fight the notion of learning any music theory, and will never use it. When you think about it, they do learn some without knowing.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 1 Aug 2015 10:58 am

Whoever coined the phrase "learning curve" was a theoretician only and had never tried to play a musical instrument. The route to mastery is no curve but a jagged incline strewn with boulders. For every forward step expect revenge. To get in the right frame of mind, play snakes and ladders with an unsympathetic opponent (such as my granddaughter). Hope this encourages you, Chris.

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 1 Aug 2015 11:14 am

I recommend the Newman courses at jeffran.com . Jeff was THE pedal steel teacher. They are a little expensive but they're packed full of everything you'll ever need to know about playing the pedal steel guitar.....and them some ! The Up From The Top series will get you going in a major way. JMHO

Chris Linck · Post by **Chris Linck** » 1 Aug 2015 11:50 am

I had the luck of being in a 2 day Newman course here in Phoenix in '81..just before my guitar was permanently borrowed. I met both Jeff and
fran..I agree their courses are good but I am really in need of hands on teaching..I found someone recently and will give that a whirl next week..After I return from Fly Fishing...another impossible topic to discuss!!!

Chris

Chris Linck · Post by **Chris Linck** » 1 Aug 2015 12:02 pm

I have gotten so much out of this thread...In the end, it all comes down to the wisdom of all you folks...what I am taking away is to just play and have at it the best you can. I am never going to complain about the luxury of having a wonderful instrument to entertain myself and if I am fortunate enough to learn a few things maybe I can entertain somebody else...I think that's the storyline here. Bless all of you that have shared your stories with me...

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 1 Aug 2015 5:00 pm

Nice Guitar.

John Prather · Post by **John Prather** » 2 Aug 2015 10:53 am

I'm essentially a beginner here. Though I had childhood instruction, I just came back to pedal steel after a 45 year hiatus. I have an intimate feel for the instrument but my knowledge of licks, scales and chords is limited. It makes me sick that I have all these physical skills with the instrument but I don't know where they go.

It is my background in music and a reasonable understanding of theory that helps me understand the instrument. Don't get me wrong. Pedal Steel is a Monster. A fun Monster. Not only is Pedal Steel Forum a great place to look for help and consolation. It's also a wealth of information. Use the search engine when you have a common question.

And YESSSSS, CHRIS LINCK.. What a Beautiful Instrument. Enjoy it.

The Steel Guitar Forum

I hate myself

Yes, But there is a pathway that might help.

Yes, But there is a pathway that might help.

Don't Quit !!!!

Diminished Chord

A little encouragement.

Jeff Newman

YES, that's right