Using the LVL

Dick Chapple Sr · Post by **Dick Chapple Sr** » 5 Jul 2015 6:50 pm

My Fessy has the Left vertical knee lever set up to raise strings 1 and 2 to match strings 3 and 4.
My question is how to actuate it? do you take your foot off of the ABC pedals to push up on the LVL, or do you have your foot on the pedals while pushing up on the LVL? Or do you do both ways? Or does it even matter since you'd be busy picking the top strings anyway?
Thanks a bunch.
Dick

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 5 Jul 2015 7:54 pm

That lever is used most for getting unison notes with strings 3 and 4. Having your feet on the pedals would defeat that. You would probably plant your foot behind the pedals and use the leverage from that. Or lift your leg up.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 5 Jul 2015 8:14 pm

Warning: I've told y'all before, I'm a goofball.
With me, it depends on how the change gets used.
If I'm going to go from LKV to LKR, I just lift up the whole foot, and come back down along the lever.
If I'm not using a pedal, I plant the toe and pivot up off the floor. I pivot up off the pedal if I am using a pedal.
Sometimes, it's almost like I'm dancing with the guitar while seated.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 5 Jul 2015 10:27 pm

I would think that it's fairly uncommon to put that change on your LKV. That change is often found on your right leg, and when used in conjuction with a LKV lowering 5 a half tone, you can do some pretty cool things.
IMHO...

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 6 Jul 2015 5:37 am

I put that change on a 0 pedal. I concur that you have an odd choice for LKV.
My LKV lowers the Bs to A#.

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 6 Jul 2015 5:40 am

Odd? That's where I have my 1-2 raises.

Seems to work fine for me.

h

Dick Chapple Sr · Post by **Dick Chapple Sr** » 6 Jul 2015 7:05 am

Thanks guys, I guess what I am doing is okay, just doing a dance with the guitar. so I'm doing something just like the Pro's are doing, thanks Lane.

I do see where many have the LVL as a lower for B. I don't have a 4th pedal. I like the 1,2 LVL raise.
Dick

Edward Rhea · Post by **Edward Rhea** » 6 Jul 2015 8:19 am

[/quote]

"I do see where many have the LVL as a lower for B. I don't have a 4th pedal. I like the 1,2 LVL raise."

My LKV lowers both B's. I don't have 4th pedal either, strings 1&2 raise on the RKL and lower string 6.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 6 Jul 2015 8:26 am

I also wouldn't put those changes on my vertical. I do have raises on strings 1 & 7 to G on my vertical. Most of the time I use them for singles note runs, which requires me to lift my leg on it's own. No big deal as I have been doing it for over 40 years. And of course it is used with the A & B pedals down, but since I split the 6th string to get a G, I rarely use the 7th string raise to get the 7th. I just lower 6 to G with the B pedal and lever that lowers 6 to F# to get it.

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 9 Jul 2015 12:24 pm

Howard Parker wrote:Odd? That's where I have my 1-2 raises.

Seems to work fine for me.

h

Me too !

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 11 Jul 2015 7:52 pm

Me, too!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 12 Jul 2015 3:50 pm

I lower my Bs! Lotta swing stuff there, plus a gloriously full 5 chord!

Paul Hoaglin · Post by **Paul Hoaglin** » 13 Jul 2015 9:00 pm

My LKV has a switch which gives me the 1 & 2 raises plus the whole tone 7 raise in one position, so count me in too, at least around half of the time!

Personally, I definitely prefer doing vertical moves that either let me pivot my foot on the ground or on the pedals, rather than having to lift the whole leg to keep the foot free to move, and for the way I use that 1 & 2 (and 7) change, I can generally choose one or the other, but if I really have to, I could "free leg" it. It's just something that's just uncomfortable enough to cause me to avoid doing it. That's why I had to get my B lowers off that lever, because there were too many good movements using them that I was avoiding physically that I really wanted to explore musically. (Now that it's on {one of} my RKL{s}, it's opened up a whole world, but that's another story.)

There's one sort of descending "cascading" double-stop lick that I'll bet most people with that change know about already, involving B&C and the 1 & 2 raise, that's really hard to do without "free-legging" it. I like the lick, and can do it, but I tend to work around it as much as possible. I suppose if the change were on a zero pedal, or on pedal 4, it would be a lot easier in some ways, but the trade-off is worth it to me - I can do it if I want to where it is, even if it is uncomfortable.

I must say, I'm really quite happy with my copedent now, even if most people would think I was nuts. (Oh, wait, I am.) I've finally (almost) stopped fiddling with stuff and (almost) started paying attention to playing with what I've got!

(Oh, and Lane, I'll bet I can come pretty close to your goofballdom....

)

Dick Chapple Sr · Post by **Dick Chapple Sr** » 14 Jul 2015 7:47 am

Glad to read your post Paul. Yes I've tried that lift knee up and float my foot, wow what a disaster, I end up either lifting the guitar off the floor or not quite enough lift so of course sounds terrible, and then I have to peek down and get my foot back where it belongs.
My LKV also raises string 7 to G.

My RKL is set to lower the B's on 5 and 10 and also lower the D on string 9. It is kind of a mess however, not functioning good right now, it had been messed with too much before I bought it. and it takes quite a bit of effort to move the lever.

QUESTION Is it better to keep the pedals slick? would it be a help or a hindrance to put a non-skid surface on the pedals?
Dick

Paul Hoaglin · Post by **Paul Hoaglin** » 14 Jul 2015 10:25 am

Personally I find the waffle-style surfaced pedals on my '70s MSA to be more comfortable than the slicker pedals on my previous steel, a Simmons Genesis, and in terms of use with the vertical, I think a little (but not too much) friction is helpful in keeping your foot where you want (or expect) it to be, especially if it takes a decent amount of pressure to activate the vertical. But too much friction could really slow down your footwork in general, so it might take some experimenting to find a material that provides a good balance. I suppose there's no harm in trying something, provided that you can remove it easily if it doesn't work well for you.

I suppose the advantage to the newer design preference of slicker, flatter pedals would be to potentially increase foot speed, but it seems to me that there's a point of diminishing returns in either direction. Personally, I find the waffle surface to be ideal (I suspect I'd like Sho-Bud pedals even more than the MSA), but yet again, everyone's foot is different.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Jul 2015 3:32 pm

The Kline I had had really slick pedals. I worked at a plating company for a while. I sandblasted all my pedals (to get the paint off), and then chrome plated them. Even with the sandblasted finish, the were too slick. And at the time, all the clubs were putting pounds of that damn dance floor wax that didn't help things. I ended up put strips of the stuff you stick on the bottoms of bath tubs.

Dick Chapple Sr · Post by **Dick Chapple Sr** » 14 Jul 2015 4:27 pm

Yes Richard, I'm thinking something like that, just enough for a little grip. My old Devoe S-10 had waffle style pedals. The Fessy pedals a shiny slick. I will experiment a little. Nothing drastic just a little at a time until it works right.

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