More Than One Pedal on a Bell Crank?

Chris Weronski · Post by **Chris Weronski** » 4 Jul 2015 7:01 am

I noticed that on my Sho-Bud Super Pro that some of the bell cranks have 2 different strings attached to it. Is this OK, or should this be avoided?

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 4 Jul 2015 7:06 am

I sometime set up a guitar to have like C pedal pulling 4 & 5 on one bell crank. I'd rather use two but sometimes it's a space issue or no extra bell cranks so I just use one. Also, it's according to type of bell crank whether it will work good or not.
To answer your question, I think it's perfectly acceptable to do that if it pulls smooth and doesn't get in way of other rods or cranks.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 4 Jul 2015 7:12 am

One bell crank pulling two different strings? I've never seen that, but I can imagine it with adjacent string pulls like the C pedal on E9th or P7 on C6th. If the leverages required for the 2 pulls are different, it should work.

Hmmm.. there's an idea!

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 4 Jul 2015 7:20 am

I do that on strings 1 & 2 , E9. It's about economy of space, jammed in by the apron & pedal rods. It works fine.

Chris Weronski · Post by **Chris Weronski** » 4 Jul 2015 7:26 am

So far it has worked OK. I bought the guitar used and that was how it was set up. I recently started checking pedal and knee lever travel just to make sure everything is set up correctly and that's when I noticed it. There's 3 of them like that throughout the guitar. I thought about adding more bell cranks but there isn't much room. I guess if its working well I shouldn't worry too much.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 4 Jul 2015 7:34 am

Look at Justice pro light Under pedal steel section. It has one bell crank on C pedal. If Fred does it, it's got to be ok, especially with good sturdy bell cranks. It wouldn't work in a Fessy or Zum type bell crank, the comb type. Works great on Emmons and several othe guitars I've seen. You have to be able to put pulls on different side of bell crank to get them straight.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 Jul 2015 8:06 am

The Perm in my living room does it at least twice.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 4 Jul 2015 8:11 am

Jon Light wrote:I do that on strings 1 & 2 , E9. It's about economy of space, jammed in by the apron & pedal rods. It works fine.

I have this one, plus a couple more (not the C pedal though). Has no effect on the playability.

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 4 Jul 2015 9:13 am

I might just try this on my super pro. My only concern is the pot metal in those parts: would the stress of a second pull run the risk of breaking the bellcrank?

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 4 Jul 2015 9:28 am

Dan Beller-McKenna wrote:I might just try this on my super pro. My only concern is the pot metal in those parts: would the stress of a second pull run the risk of breaking the bellcrank?

I guess it could. I have never had a bellcrank break on the Super-Pro I had, but I didn't have any that were pulling 2 strings, that I remember. Might be worth buying one from Michael Yahl (if he makes them) just to be safe.

Danny Letz · Post by **Danny Letz** » 4 Jul 2015 5:07 pm

Have seen this on late model Zums and Mullen. I do not see a problem with it. Bruce told me it was ok on one I was changing copedents on. Particularly helpful when you need an extra bellcrank to do something else with and don't want to wait on an order.

Hamilton Barnard · Post by **Hamilton Barnard** » 4 Jul 2015 5:47 pm

The "C" pedal pull on strings 4 & 5 are on one bellcrank on the Emmons I bought from Billy Knowles. Ingenious, I think.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 4 Jul 2015 6:46 pm

"It wouldn't work in a Fessy or Zum type bell crank, the comb type."

I have strings 1 and 2 pulling together on one bellcrank on my Fessenden's with no problems....

Chris Weronski · Post by **Chris Weronski** » 5 Jul 2015 8:01 am

I've been playing the guitar with that setup for a little more than a year and I haven't had any of the bell cranks break. Its a 1979 Super Pro and as far as I can tell, the bell cranks are original. Who knows how long it was set up like that though.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 5 Jul 2015 11:24 am

I pull 1 and 2 on my Pro 1 which is late 70's, 5 hole cast pullers, also termed the Super Pro system. no issues..

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 5 Jul 2015 2:03 pm

Good to know, guys. Thanks.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 5 Jul 2015 2:09 pm

John Macy wrote:"It wouldn't work in a Fessy or Zum type bell crank, the comb type."

I have strings 1 and 2 pulling together on one bellcrank on my Fessenden's with no problems....

Fess here, too. No issues.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 5 Jul 2015 2:35 pm

b0b wrote:One bell crank pulling two different strings? I've never seen that, but I can imagine it with adjacent string pulls like the C pedal on E9th or P7 on C6th. If the leverages required for the 2 pulls are different, it should work.

is that what you meant b0b, or did you mean if the leverage required is the same?

i'm just trying to picture it all.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 5 Jul 2015 3:03 pm

Sort of a matter of semantics. Two rods on one bellcrank will occupy different holes. If the two strings require equal leverage, you can't achieve that at the bellcrank. You would have to compensate via changer hole choice. So the ideal situation would be two strings that require just the difference that two different bellcrank holes would give you.

If 100% synchronicity is not totally essential, you can get away with a little more slack in one rod or the other so I wouldn't make a blanket statement that the two strings have to need different leverages....or need the same leverage.
If one obsesses over perfect timing, you might have some trouble getting this timed exactly right.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 5 Jul 2015 3:46 pm

I meant what I said. The two pulls need to have different leverages because they are using different holes in the bell crank. If they had the same leverage, they wouldn't be well timed.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 5 Jul 2015 5:10 pm

ok. i get it. thanx.

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 6 Jul 2015 5:19 am

Hey b0b, I have strings 1 and 2 pulling together on one bellcrank on the Blue ETS you sold me, without any problems.

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 6 Jul 2015 8:08 am

Here are two rods on one bell crank with different holes and slanted angles for timing adjustments.

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 6 Jul 2015 12:30 pm

My Sierra is an older model with double-raise/double-lower changers. Since it's a S12U guitar, I'm raising my E string (#4) with three changes: two knees and one pedal. I raise that string to F# with my RKL--not with pedal C as most guitars do. I raise it with pedal 6 for the split that raises the string from Eb back to E when it's also lowered to Eb. It's a standard universal change.

That leaves the E to F change for string #4. It's raised via LKL that pulls a reverse-mounted bell crank on the same axle as the E to F# change. It has a stop that just pulls it a half tone. Simple, but it works. The only drawback is the hex tuning nut is under the guitar--I have to feel around for it. It's a minor inconvenience as it rarely needs to be tuned.