D-10 Perm, got pics, got some questions, new pix/question

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 22 Jun 2015 3:06 pm

A neighbor dropped off a pretty cool one and a half owner Perm (the owner inherited it from his late father, and he believes dad was first owner).
I took a mess of pics.
It has endplates rather than all wood cabinet.
8P,2K.
The endplates LOOK Bud. But there's no serial number in the endplate, and the knees look kinda janky. No damage from age, though.

Billy Easton · Post by **Billy Easton** » 22 Jun 2015 3:10 pm

Lane..
In the early 1960s I had a D10 beautiful ShoBud permanent with metal endplates, complete with the drawer pull hardware. It was original, so some must have come with metal endplates, while others were just the wood cabinets...

Billy Easton

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 22 Jun 2015 4:29 pm

This is believed to be late 60s,but I can find no serial number (but the entire undercarriage is painted black, a number might possibly be under paint).

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2015 6:43 am

OK, so what are the upper lateral screws for? Fine adjustment of scale length?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2015 7:02 am

These tuning keys on the treble side seem problematic. The worm gear is on the wrong side, and they turn the wrong way to raise the pitch. Although I suspect Shot might have just gotten a good deal on backwards machines.

The label bit. Does the decal protect against darkening?

The metal plate below the Sho-Bud label has no visible paint or engraving

I'm not sure what the deal is with this plate screwed down on the front apron

The knees look kinda janky.

More pics soon

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2015 8:27 am

And a couple of copedent questions, although I suspect that it might well be answered by "look, these things were built when stuff wasn't fully standardized, work with it."
E9th LKL raises 9. Really? I'm wondering whether tuning to C# and raising to 9 or tuning to D and raising to E makes sense.
RKL lowers 2 and 8
P4 does that which usually shows up on P6.
P5 raises not 3&4, but 4&5.
Also, I'm going to restring it:, do the perms take well to the B pedal pulling a wound 6th?

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 23 Jun 2015 8:53 am

Lane, I'm definitely no expert, but thinking mechanically...

OK, so what are the upper lateral screws for? Fine adjustment of scale length?

I'm thinking more for adjusting harmonics...

I'm not sure what the deal is with this plate screwed down on the front apron

Looks like some kind of repair...

That's all of the amateur help I can offer... good luck with it...

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2015 8:56 am

The owner brought it over and I plugged it in and tuned it up. The E9th neck sounds GREAT, but I will have to teach the C6th neck the words, as it wants to hum a lot.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 23 Jun 2015 9:04 am

Scott Duckworth wrote:
OK, so what are the upper lateral screws for? Fine adjustment of scale length?
I'm thinking more for adjusting harmonics...
.

wouldn't that be the same thing?

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 23 Jun 2015 9:51 am

Lane,
Lotsa questions!
The lateral screws in the changer are to adjust scale length.
Have you considered that some players back then had the C6th neck up front, and E9th in back?
Keyhead is Fingertip style with string ball-ends for rollers, so that puts it in the 60's,,,,unless the keyhead was later modified from the non-roller style.
The tuning machines aren't original. Grovers Statites were the earliest, followed by Schallers, Then the familiar Rotomatics.
Could you take a pic looking straight down at the underbelly of that beast?
Nice guitar!
JB

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2015 10:11 am

More pics will follow in a week or so.

Since P1 is the A pedal, 2 is a B pedal and 3 isn't quite right, AND the right knee lowers 2 and 8, and the back neck has 5 pedals, I'm pretty sure front neck is E9th. Back neck is a slightly eccentric C6.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 23 Jun 2015 10:24 am

Lane, even when the neck positions are reversed, P1/2/3 are still in the same position. But I guess you're right!
JB

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2015 10:54 am

Two C6th oddities in addition to the placement of P6:
One of the pedals has an asymmetric effect on the C strings. It either raises 3 and lowers 7 or vice versa.
It's out of adjustment, but there's a half-stop on one of the pedals.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2015 11:21 am

I forgot I hadn't uploaded the underskirt pix.
Fingers and switch and knobs.

I'm not sure what this thing is

Another

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » 23 Jun 2015 1:56 pm

Lane, from the image of the ShoBud logo, it looks like there might be a secondary smaller plate covering the larger gold plate. Maybe an attempt to cover the original owner's name?

What's the purpose for the tapered neck/fretboard at the nut? Isn't this standard 10-string pitch at the nut?

The "C" neck key head treble side is loaded with bass side keys.....don't think Shot would do that?

Nice guitar....wish I'd rescued it.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 23 Jun 2015 2:11 pm

Jerry, the owner says he may well want to sell it.
I'm not gonna overhaul it and certainly not restore it. I'm just charged with making it respectable and functional.
I gave him a lowball price: he didn't give me a job or a project. He lent me a toy. And a cool one.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 23 Jun 2015 2:21 pm

Well, my answer got lost, but then I keep getting logged oput for no reason.

"What's the purpose for the tapered neck/fretboard at the nut?"

That's just the way they were done back then. I've often thought that the "Super Gumby" keyhead coupled with the "Ducktail" changer signified the "S" in Shobud.

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 23 Jun 2015 9:49 pm

What the heck is that big 'ol spring?

Lane Gray wrote:

Hey John, if your getting logged out it means something is deleting your browser cookies. You can tweak that in your browser settings, but could also be from a separate anti-spyware type program or something

.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 23 Jun 2015 11:05 pm

Wouldn't it happen at other sites where I'm a member? It only happens here. Check my thread in Forum Feedback, and you'll see it's happening to a lot of members@!

Dan Robinson · Post by **Dan Robinson** » 23 Jun 2015 11:24 pm

Isn't that the cover for the 9V battery that powers the built in fuzz box?

Just kidding, Lane. That's a cool guitar.
Ain't it funny how pedal steel guitar history pokes up its head when you don't expect it?

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 24 Jun 2015 1:44 pm

Lane, no-one's answered you about the wound 6th string, so I'll have a go. I have a similar instrument and there is plenty of travel in that changer. I remember reading that the wound 6th was standard in that era. I think it sounds right with the single-coil pickup. The 10-8-6 chord is good and rich.

Mike DiAlesandro · Post by **Mike DiAlesandro** » 28 Jun 2015 4:40 am

Lane, how do you remove the pickups on these permanents. The one I just received has similar pups, with screws through the top on each end. I have tried to loosen them but they seem to just spin, and when I turn them counter clockwise they actually tighten the pickup. I don't want to force anything, as the pickup sounds really good, but there is an intermittent issue if you move it slightly in its current position.

Thanks, Mike

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 28 Jun 2015 4:44 am

Talk to James or Bob Muller. I don't know, and I'm doubting I'll pull these

Mike DiAlesandro · Post by **Mike DiAlesandro** » 28 Jun 2015 4:51 am

Lane Gray wrote:Talk to James or Bob Muller. I don't know, and I'm doubting I'll pull these

Thanks Lane, will do.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 28 Jun 2015 10:15 am

Mike DiAlesandro wrote:Lane, how do you remove the pickups on these permanents. The one I just received has similar pups, with screws through the top on each end. I have tried to loosen them but they seem to just spin, and when I turn them counter clockwise they actually tighten the pickup. I don't want to force anything, as the pickup sounds really good, but there is an intermittent issue if you move it slightly in its current position.

Thanks, Mike

Mike they look like the ones that were in my Fingertip. The have a pan underneath they are bolted to. Those bolts thru that pick up are connected to the windings and if you spin them too much you will break the windings. You almost have to take off the strings and the changer cover. Then undo the adjustment screws and the plate will come off. The ground wire is most likely soldered to one of the nuts on those bolts going thru the pick-up. Be careful heating up the nut. they will come off the plate if you take your time. I put newer Bud pick-ups in mine for a time and went with the springs and screw deal. If you should decide to change things out hang on to those mounting plates in case you ever want to go back to the original. By the way David Jackson rewound mine complete with the coil tap wire.

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D-10 Perm, got pics, got some questions, new pix/question

D-10 Perm, got pics, got some questions, new pix/question

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